Discussion:
Oxygen software. Licence renewals
(too old to reply)
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-10 13:22:21 UTC
Permalink
All I want to do is change the phone I use!
This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to renew my
licence.
In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!

Quote:-
Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_ one
phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be done in
several mouse clicks
Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story straight!

-------------------------

Hello!
Thank you for using Oxygen Phone Manager!
Unfortunately, your license expired. You can renew it here
www.opm-2.com/order/ Please, note, you should enter Qtu of phones you wish
to renew, it is one for default.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Oxygen Software
2003-09-10 14:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:22:21 +0100:

DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!

DB> Quote:-
Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks
DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!

Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical support
(including phone replacement) to you.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-10 14:48:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!
DB> Quote:-
Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks
DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!
Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical support
(including phone replacement) to you.
If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
So my complaint is true and valid. After 1 year, I cannot change my handset,
and your product becomes worthless. This is a SCAM! An excuse to con people
out of their money.
You know people are going to upgrade their handsets after about 18 months,
so either they pay up (for a product thats already paid for) or go without.
Well I'm going to make this con well known!
John C. Rymer
2003-09-10 22:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!
DB> Quote:-
Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks
DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!
Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical
support
Post by Oxygen Software
(including phone replacement) to you.
If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
So my complaint is true and valid. After 1 year, I cannot change my handset,
and your product becomes worthless. This is a SCAM! An excuse to con people
out of their money.
You know people are going to upgrade their handsets after about 18 months,
so either they pay up (for a product thats already paid for) or go without.
Well I'm going to make this con well known!
Ah don't talk crap, you pay money for the program and one year of upgrades
and support and can use the product for as long as you want after that with
the same phone, you just want upgrades for life and to use it with as many
phones as you choose. I'm sure you would have found out what you were
getting if you had read the licence agreement or terms.
--
John C. Rymer
www.UnlockingIreland.com
UK, Ireland and worldwide phone unlocking.
The Mole
2003-09-11 00:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Providing the registration lasts for the life of the registered phones I
don't see a problem. You can change your handsets within the year, after
that year you need to update the licence to use new phones with it or you
are stuck with just the ones you have registered. :) The updater of the
licence code expires. This is my understanding.

This surely supports the product where piracy is rife. Common sense to me,
to develop software where you can be sure of an on going income in difficult
times. Right Oxygen? :) In a years time newer phones may be out and
this insures you pay for on going developement. If you don't upgrade your
phones though, it won't affect you! :)
G
2003-09-11 08:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
Providing the registration lasts for the life of the registered phones I
don't see a problem. You can change your handsets within the year, after
that year you need to update the licence to use new phones with it or you
are stuck with just the ones you have registered. :) The updater of the
licence code expires. This is my understanding.
This surely supports the product where piracy is rife. Common sense to me,
to develop software where you can be sure of an on going income in difficult
times. Right Oxygen? :) In a years time newer phones may be out and
this insures you pay for on going developement. If you don't upgrade your
phones though, it won't affect you! :)
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a different
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you happen to
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.

Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of the
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-11 08:15:46 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a different
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you happen to
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of the
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead the
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going to
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to pull
in more money :(
Oxygen Software
2003-09-11 12:07:53 UTC
Permalink
--
Hello!

Thank you for contacting us!

The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we want
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.

If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a
different
Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you
happen
Post by Dolphin Boy
to
Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of
the
Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead the
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going to
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to pull
in more money :(
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-11 12:34:13 UTC
Permalink
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!
Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we want
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a
different
Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you
happen
Post by Dolphin Boy
to
Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the
software
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of
the
Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going
to
Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to
pull
Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(
Oxygen Software
2003-09-11 13:44:45 UTC
Permalink
--
Hello!

Thank you for contacting us!

We are warning people about it. It is written in the License agreement
(which you accepted before installing the software) and in our Readme. If
that wasn't acceptable for you, you shouldn't install and use the software,
but could had a refund. You have accepted it, you've agreed with it.

If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!
Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we
want
Post by Dolphin Boy
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't
get
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a
different
Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you
happen
Post by Dolphin Boy
to
Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the
software
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated
copies
Post by Dolphin Boy
of
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
the
Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the
key
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going
to
Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to
pull
Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(
Chris Blunt
2003-09-11 15:37:56 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:44:45 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License agreement
(which you accepted before installing the software) and in our Readme.
I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
different phone after the end of the year.
Post by Dolphin Boy
If
that wasn't acceptable for you, you shouldn't install and use the software,
but could had a refund. You have accepted it, you've agreed with it.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!
Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we
want
Post by Dolphin Boy
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't
get
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a
different
Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you
happen
Post by Dolphin Boy
to
Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the
software
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this
is
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms
and
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by G
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated
copies
Post by Dolphin Boy
of
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
the
Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.
My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the
key
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually
lead
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
the
Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are
going
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
to
Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to
pull
Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 07:17:31 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Chris!
Post by Oxygen Software
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License
agreement (which you accepted before installing the software) and in
our Readme.
CB> I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
CB> that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
CB> mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
CB> different phone after the end of the year.

As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise notification about
"changing phones policy". We haven't included this topic because of the same
reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone support policy"
and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll clarify
this moment in the license agreement.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-12 07:43:39 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise notification about
"changing phones policy". We haven't included this topic because of the same
reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone support policy"
and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll clarify
this moment in the license agreement.
GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license change,
so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 08:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:43:39 +0100:

DB> <snip>
Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise
notification about "changing phones policy". We haven't included this
topic because of
Post by Oxygen Software
the same reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone
support
Post by Oxygen Software
policy" and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll
clarify this moment in the license agreement.
DB> GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license
DB> change, so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?

First of all, we didn't "change" the license, we just concretized it. And
of course we would be happy to help you if you've contacted us with a
scancopy of document confirming the phone replacement *before* you started
this discussion and replied "Don't buy" and "This is a SCAM" to every our
post. But now... Sorry, your license is expired and the only we can offer to
you is to renew it for 1 year more.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-12 08:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> <snip>
Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise
notification about "changing phones policy". We haven't included this
topic because of
Post by Oxygen Software
the same reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone
support
Post by Oxygen Software
policy" and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll
clarify this moment in the license agreement.
DB> GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license
DB> change, so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?
First of all, we didn't "change" the license, we just concretized it. And
of course we would be happy to help you if you've contacted us with a
scancopy of document confirming the phone replacement *before* you started
this discussion and replied "Don't buy" and "This is a SCAM" to every our
post. But now... Sorry, your license is expired and the only we can offer to
you is to renew it for 1 year more.
I DID contact you in private correspondance. You refused to allow me to use
the
software I have already paid for.
This IS a scam, using anti theft measures to obtain money from users that
have
already purchased software.
If you can only "offer" to con me out of more money, look forward to me
warning
all other potential purchasers about this rip-off
Have a nice day!
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 13:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:57:04 +0100:

DB> I DID contact you in private correspondance. You refused to allow me
DB> to use the software I have already paid for.

No, we didn't. You can use the software you've paid for as long as you
wish. We just refused to provide technical support to you, because your
registration period is expired. Purchasing Oxygen Phone Manager II you get
one year of free upgrades and
technical support. After this year, if you want to renew your registration
and get one more year of upgrades and technical support, you have to
purchase "Renew" license for a special price (from 5.95 to 12.95Euro per
phone).

DB> This IS a scam, using anti theft measures to obtain money from users
DB> that have already purchased software.

Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. After 1
year you can continue using the product with the last registered phone as
long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one more year
of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.

DB> If you can only "offer" to con me out of more money, look forward to
DB> me warning all other potential purchasers about this rip-off

We will be very grateful if you'll heap this mission onto your shoulders,
because analyzing your situation we were very surprised that not all
customers read license conditions (available at the order page and
readme.txt file displayed during *every* update installation!) before
purchase.

DB> Have a nice day!

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Jakey
2003-09-12 15:50:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:48:44 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support.
Updates?. Most of them were bug fixes, and when i informed you about a
bug you would not answer my e-mails until i put it on this newsgroup.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-13 17:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Jakey!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:50:23 +0100:

J> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:48:44 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments.
You paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical
support.
J> Updates?. Most of them were bug fixes, and when i informed you about a
J> bug you would not answer my e-mails until i put it on this newsgroup.

Oxygen Phone Manager II has built-in bug reporting system that sends us an
internal information about error and helps us to track the problem's
location and reason. We gather this information and try to fix the problem.
And we include all bugfixes' description into WhatsNew.txt file that's
available in every new release or update. But please understand that
this bug reporting system is *for our internal use only*. We don't answer
all bug reports and we claim nowhere that we do this.

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2003-09-12 12:08:53 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:17:31 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Chris!
Post by Oxygen Software
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License
agreement (which you accepted before installing the software) and in
our Readme.
CB> I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
CB> that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
CB> mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
CB> different phone after the end of the year.
As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.
According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.

Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-12 12:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Blunt
According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.
Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.
Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already have
our money
and therefore no longer care.
The best I can do is to warn potential buyers before they get caught in the
same trap.
Thanks for the support. (pun not intended :)
BG
2003-09-12 13:10:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:57:56 +0100, "Dolphin Boy"
Post by Dolphin Boy
Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already have
our money
and therefore no longer care.
The best I can do is to warn potential buyers before they get caught in the
same trap.
Thanks for the support. (pun not intended :)
I have to agree. I had a very long and unpleasant fight with them.
They refused to update the program, claiming " can't find any notes of
you beeing a customer of ours"

Their arguments were dirty and was called all kind of things in this
group.

So, I must agree:

STAY AWAY!!!


====================================== phone pages
http://osbymikro.tk
====================================== free sms
http://2sms.tk
====================================== mail address
***@osbymikro.tk.remove_th.is
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 14:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:57:56 +0100:

DB> Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already
DB> have our money and therefore no longer care.

It is not true. We care about all our customers. Otherwise I would never
wrote a lot of messages here clarifying some moments of our upgrade policy
you haven't even read.

f you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 14:23:27 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Chris!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:08:53 +0100:

CB> Can I make a suggestion to you?

Surely you can, Chris.

CB> Instead of spending time here arguing with your customers, why don't
CB> you listen to them. Its clear that many people find your policy
CB> onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course you need to make money,
CB> nobody would deny that, but other software producers seem to be able to
CB> find ways around software piracy without going to such extreme
CB> measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4 years ago. I paid less
CB> that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I have been entitled to use
CB> every new release of Logomanager since, and
CB> I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
CB> phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
CB> nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what
CB> we've already paid for just so that you can continue to develop
CB> software.

Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any. Pirated
version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right the day after
they released.
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more features
than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its evolution a long
time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great programmer!) understood it
and created three(!) new products to continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every time the
previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free yearly and be sure
you will receive all the new features in regular updates. We choose the
second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's more
fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.

By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650 phones
are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support *absolutely
free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1 year and were
forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2. It's
more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2003-09-12 16:04:29 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:23:27 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Chris!
CB> Can I make a suggestion to you?
Surely you can, Chris.
CB> Instead of spending time here arguing with your customers, why don't
CB> you listen to them. Its clear that many people find your policy
CB> onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course you need to make money,
CB> nobody would deny that, but other software producers seem to be able to
CB> find ways around software piracy without going to such extreme
CB> measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4 years ago. I paid less
CB> that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I have been entitled to use
CB> every new release of Logomanager since, and
CB> I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
CB> phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
CB> nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what
CB> we've already paid for just so that you can continue to develop
CB> software.
Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any. Pirated
version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right the day after
they released.
That may be true, but those guilty people who are pirating the
software are not your customers. Your customers have paid you for the
software, so why punish them for somebody else's crime by making them
pay for anti-piracy measures that benefit only you?
Post by Oxygen Software
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more features
than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its evolution a long
time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great programmer!) understood it
and created three(!) new products to continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every time the
previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free yearly and be sure
you will receive all the new features in regular updates. We choose the
second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's more
fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.
Oleg, in all your responses you keep talking about the benefits of
receiving upgraded software when that is not the real issue being
questioned here. What people dislike is being forced to pay again for
using the *same* version of OPM with another phone, even of the *same*
model.
Post by Oxygen Software
By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650 phones
are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support *absolutely
free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1 year and were
forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2. It's
more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.
Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new models
which are released during the next 12 months. You would be able to
identify the model of the phone being used just as you can now
identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case people
lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade them soon
after buying your software.

Then, at any time after the expiry of his license, the customer has
the option of buying an additional license from you which would enable
his software to be used with an extended range of phones, including
any currently available phone plus any new models released in the next
12 months. That additional license would be your payment for the
additional development work you had done to support new phones.

There would then be no need to obtain new codes every time you changed
your phone for a current model. Customers could still download the
latest version of OPM in order to fix any bugs, but will not have the
ability to use the software with the latest models unless they buy
another license.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-15 09:31:28 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Chris!
Post by Oxygen Software
Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any.
Pirated version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right
the day after they released.
CB> That may be true, but those guilty people who are pirating the
CB> software are not your customers. Your customers have paid you for
CB> the software, so why punish them for somebody else's crime by making
CB> them pay for anti-piracy measures that benefit only you?

Of course they are not our customers, and I didn't write this. We both
understand that the task of anti-piracy protection is always the selection
between more convenience and stronger protection. We're developing Oxygen
Phone Manager since March, 2000 and our protection scheme we use now seems
to be the happy medium between "comfortable but easy cracking" and
"strongest but very hard to use". We minimized customers' inconvenience when
registering phones by reducing of their actions to several mouse clicks. But
we understand that there are some small inconveniences in other aspect we
can't overcome without making the protection poor.
Post by Oxygen Software
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more
features than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its
evolution a long time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great
programmer!) understood it and created three(!) new products to
continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every
time the previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free
yearly and be sure you will receive all the new features in regular
updates. We choose the second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's
more fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.
CB> Oleg, in all your responses you keep talking about the benefits of
CB> receiving upgraded software when that is not the real issue being
CB> questioned here. What people dislike is being forced to pay again
CB> for using the *same* version of OPM with another phone, even of the
CB> *same* model.

It's hard to make the license policy that satisfies all. I agree that this
situation is not foreseen in our updates policy, but as I said before:
1. It's a very infrequent situation when somebody *purchases* the same model
that he used a year ago. Actually I know few models that were issued by
Nokia for more than 1 year, but the most of them were supported less than
year.
2. If the previous phone was dead and replaced by service center, you always
can contact us with a scancopy of the document confirming this replacement
and we'll try to help.
3. Personally I don't understand the "problem" of registration renewal at
all, because I can't imagine a person who bought a phone and said: "It's my
last phone model. I won't need any new models anymore for all the rest of my
life". But... It's only my opinion and maybe these people are living among
us, and maybe they consider the question of 12.95Euro renewal is adequate to
this huge polemics ;-)
Post by Oxygen Software
By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650
phones are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support
*absolutely free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1
year and were forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen
Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2.
It's more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.
CB> Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
CB> Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
CB> allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new
CB> models which are released during the next 12 months. You would be
CB> able to identify the model of the phone being used just as you can
CB> now identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case
CB> people lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade
CB> them soon after buying your software.

This solution has (at least) two weak places:
1. We don't know ID's of "any new models which are released during the next
12 months".
2. Every time the new Nokia model is released we don't know its "internal"
name (and we can't identify it) until either we buy and test it or (e.g. if
the model is not for Europe market) our betatesters try it and send us all
the required data. Storing "allowed" model names will result in
impossibility to detect the new model by our betatesters.

But we'll think about this scheme.
Anyhow right now the problem of dead/lost phones replacement can be solved
by contacting us as I wrote before.

CB> Then, at any time after the expiry of his license, the customer has
CB> the option of buying an additional license from you which would
CB> enable his software to be used with an extended range of phones,
CB> including any currently available phone plus any new models released
CB> in the next 12 months. That additional license would be your payment
CB> for the additional development work you had done to support new
CB> phones.

This suggestion looks quite reasonable. We'll think about implementing it.

CB> There would then be no need to obtain new codes every time you
CB> changed your phone for a current model. Customers could still
CB> download the latest version of OPM in order to fix any bugs, but
CB> will not have the ability to use the software with the latest models
CB> unless they buy another license.

It's not a good idea, because the registration key that has no information
about the specified phone becomes applicable to every phone of allowed
models. So it would be very easy to make this registration key available for
all.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2003-09-15 10:48:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:28 +0400, "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
CB> Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
CB> Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
CB> allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new
CB> models which are released during the next 12 months. You would be
CB> able to identify the model of the phone being used just as you can
CB> now identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case
CB> people lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade
CB> them soon after buying your software.
1. We don't know ID's of "any new models which are released during the next
12 months".
You don't know it until the phone has been released, but what I am
suggesting is that this information be contained in the registration
code that you send customers to 'enable' the software to be used with
a particular range of phone models.
Post by Oxygen Software
2. Every time the new Nokia model is released we don't know its "internal"
name (and we can't identify it) until either we buy and test it or (e.g. if
the model is not for Europe market) our betatesters try it and send us all
the required data. Storing "allowed" model names will result in
impossibility to detect the new model by our betatesters.
But we'll think about this scheme.
Anyhow right now the problem of dead/lost phones replacement can be solved
by contacting us as I wrote before.
The Mole
2003-09-12 14:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Blunt
Post by Oxygen Software
As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.
According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.
Not a good arguement for the simple reason the License = Product +
Updates&Support
is well documented (always read small print). As far as I can tell the
automation is to yes, protect the software within the realms of your
licence. After the year has expired all they need do is tell the server to
deny the user and no more updated keys as per licencing conditions. If you
pay the U&S upgrade price then this is reinitialised. Like Norton
AntiVirus do, in order to support their software with latest definitions,
pay staff etc, otherwise = no product. Way of the world m8y. Get used to
it - because that's the way it is. This method is the way of updating the
program with new phones. So you are paying for the updates, not the server
dishing them out.
Post by Chris Blunt
Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.
You have to realise that times change. Mike Bradley has since learnt that
trying to be socialist and capitalist does not work. Bastards still rip
him off even when he charged just £20. It also meant all his hard work in
updates became free which is impossible to do as much as he may like to
because new phones are coming out constantly and he is making no money for
developing for them. These are new products, new coding. You may think
it should be free but that is stupid to do. Periodically you have to have
2.0, 3.0 etc with a new charge/upgrade structure otherwise you fold.

Mike's new products split from LM (I would guess) in order to have a new
price structure introduced. LM had the infinite updates policy, but he
couldn't see the future and of which has stuck to in regards to all DCT3.
DCT4 being different workings made sense to create individual tools, so you
buy what features you want, can use them as long as want, unless and upgrade
where you pay an upgrade charge. If you want cheap quality products, you
a) support the author so he has desire and b) don't pirate them. Otherwise
you have to pay for it and that is just life. Go and play some Monty
Python! :)

LM is likely to stop I would guess at 1.3.0 now as there is really not much
more can do in it (apart from clock set) and it really has no future in it
financially. Development time is now in the DCT4 stuff, not worth making
new LM which get pirated anyway.
Well that is what I would do anyway if I had programmed it.

Mole.
Just pay the 12.95 euros for the renew of live update and all will be well.
Very simple really - it equates to less than £10 for a years continued
support of the latest technology. :) The licence was there, you just
didn't read it. Don't want to add new phones after a year for £10? Stick
with what you have then. Simple. Mike and Oxygen are two different
people competing and each have a right to express what methods they choose
to sell their software, in the way they want to sell it.
The Mole
2003-09-11 13:57:59 UTC
Permalink
As long as the current licence works with the current version at time of
expiry with all current phones registered and this is all listed in the
sales agreement where is the problem? Say you get a 3610i released next
year. It won't be in the build 2.1.7 for example, so would need to be
added say in 2.1.8 and that costs money. With other shareware programs you
buy, you periodically have to re-buy the latest version - take PaintShopPro
for example. Even if you pay an upgrade fee. You are paying for the work
that allows the newer phone technology to be included. If you don't agree
to this licence method, don't use the software - but you are probably in the
minority.

Oxygen has a lot of work put in to it, and you need a constant income to
make it worthwhile to continue going. This method is a fair way of doing
that. You get a free year of upgrades, after that you pay a smaller fee
which continues upgrades and allows time to be spent adding new technology
to the program - don't get new technology and you don't need a new licence -
you get what you pay for. It is impossible to do for free - even if you'd
like to. Otherwise everyone would have the program and you'd be forever
updating it for free - like LM and see what people do with a £20 program -
they crack it. As people steal it, that only increases the problem. So
in a society like ours, you have to have a lever somewhere and this is a
sensible idea.

Unfortunately thieves don't have a knowledge of business - just how to
steal - why everyone told me to unlock DCT4 free and flamed me. You got
your wish - now none of you can charge for it! Instead everyone could have
helped each other and unlocking been stable at £20.00 with other phones done
also. But in this world someone always wants to get more than the other
and ruins what works by greed.

If and when the algorithum has is then changed noone has anything. Or - if
Nokia have any sense, they now won't change the algorithum - because having
solutions so available, makes it inviable as a business and noone can do it
due to the high overheads v the little income it now has. Hence customers
have to do it themselves now and be pretty clued up. Having it fully out
there, is better than having a new solution brought out. It actually
protects the Nokia product more. :)

You all defeat yourselves.
http://www.unlocksmith.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!
The Mole
2003-09-11 14:10:53 UTC
Permalink
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Mole.

Sorry - thought it funny! :)
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-11 14:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Mole.
Sorry - thought it funny! :)
What's funny is that <every> time I see Oxygen in this NG, I'm gonna publish
my "review" (har-har!) of their license. I have owned a computer of some
sort
or other sinse 1980. Every piece of SW I own (Even Logomanager!) is paid
for.
OPM2 is the only application to use this scam.
Richard Colton
2003-09-11 21:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Well, he could, but personally I wouldn't bother. I put a basic review up
on my site which Oxygen had a few minor niggles with (they must have gone
looking, because I never notified them it was there in the first place).
So, as I'd written a review, I was offered a family licence so I could do a
proper review of the product. All well and good, but I found that my
original review was still waht I believed after evaluating Oxygen, so made
very few modifications to it.

Result - licence lasts approx 1 month! Not really a hardship as I don't,
and wouldn't regularly use it, but it does make you wonder.
--
Post by The Mole
Unlock Your Phones Potential <<<
http://www.thephonelocker.co.uk <<<
http://www.uselessinfo.org.uk <<<
The Mole
2003-09-12 03:01:07 UTC
Permalink
I have to say, although is a very nice program, I cannot get to grips with
it in the same way as LM and MobiMB.
It's probably because I don't see as many new phones now, but I would tend
to use LM for when upgrading DCT3
and MobiMB for DCT4 tinkering. I have a 3510i for fun (I got a good deal)
but never really got to grips with it - it may be sad, but I really like the
3410. It isn't a fiddly phone like the 8310, 7210 to use etc, it's not as
orangey as the 3510i - if made the colour of the phone nicer - it would have
helped. I just feel like 3510i screams at me, "My first Nokia!"
3410 doesn't do that - nice simple phone, with a few useful tools that are
bug fixed over the 3310/3330 range.
Best Nokia so far IMHO. :) I like the fact I can send ringtones and draw
screensavers (that move), then send via LM with this model. I find it very
hard to get to grips with Oxygen because of the fact it seems to load all
your settings each time and saving what you have done is more complicated
than LM. I've not used it much, I'd like to really, really praise this
program more than it sounds here, but I think what it is, is not used it
enough or worked with it enough to get the full benefits. I have it set up
so my 3510i is on COM 1 and I have 3410 on COM2 etc. I expect you can copy
nos from one to the other etc, just not really quite sure how. I must try
it out more - half the problem I think, got too used to LM write as you go.
Plus LM only updates everything if you need it to, not everytime you do
anything. I should read the help file more thoroughly! :)
Post by Richard Colton
Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Well, he could, but personally I wouldn't bother. I put a basic review up
on my site which Oxygen had a few minor niggles with (they must have gone
looking, because I never notified them it was there in the first place).
So, as I'd written a review, I was offered a family licence so I could do a
proper review of the product. All well and good, but I found that my
original review was still waht I believed after evaluating Oxygen, so made
very few modifications to it.
Result - licence lasts approx 1 month! Not really a hardship as I don't,
and wouldn't regularly use it, but it does make you wonder.
--
Post by The Mole
Unlock Your Phones Potential <<<
http://www.thephonelocker.co.uk <<<
http://www.uselessinfo.org.uk <<<
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 07:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Hello, The Mole!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 03:01:07 +0000 (UTC):

TM> enough to get the full benefits. I have it set up so my 3510i is
TM> on COM 1 and I have 3410 on COM2 etc. I expect you can copy nos
TM> from one to the other etc, just not really quite sure how.

Just a small help ;-) In Phonebook select the required contacts, press
right mouse button and choose "Copy to"- <destination phone> menu item.
After that press "Write" button at destination's phone Phonebook.

f you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Chris Blunt
2003-09-11 15:37:57 UTC
Permalink
I think you've missed the point. The issue here is not about receiving
upgrades to work with newly released models, its about it working with
a different phone of exactly the *same* model.

If you lose your currently registered phone and replace it with
another identical phone OPM will not work with the replacement unit if
more than a year has elapsed since you bought the software.


On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:57:59 +0000 (UTC), "The Mole"
Post by The Mole
As long as the current licence works with the current version at time of
expiry with all current phones registered and this is all listed in the
sales agreement where is the problem? Say you get a 3610i released next
year. It won't be in the build 2.1.7 for example, so would need to be
added say in 2.1.8 and that costs money. With other shareware programs you
buy, you periodically have to re-buy the latest version - take PaintShopPro
for example. Even if you pay an upgrade fee. You are paying for the work
that allows the newer phone technology to be included. If you don't agree
to this licence method, don't use the software - but you are probably in the
minority.
Oxygen has a lot of work put in to it, and you need a constant income to
make it worthwhile to continue going. This method is a fair way of doing
that. You get a free year of upgrades, after that you pay a smaller fee
which continues upgrades and allows time to be spent adding new technology
to the program - don't get new technology and you don't need a new licence -
you get what you pay for. It is impossible to do for free - even if you'd
like to. Otherwise everyone would have the program and you'd be forever
updating it for free - like LM and see what people do with a £20 program -
they crack it. As people steal it, that only increases the problem. So
in a society like ours, you have to have a lever somewhere and this is a
sensible idea.
Unfortunately thieves don't have a knowledge of business - just how to
steal - why everyone told me to unlock DCT4 free and flamed me. You got
your wish - now none of you can charge for it! Instead everyone could have
helped each other and unlocking been stable at £20.00 with other phones done
also. But in this world someone always wants to get more than the other
and ruins what works by greed.
If and when the algorithum has is then changed noone has anything. Or - if
Nokia have any sense, they now won't change the algorithum - because having
solutions so available, makes it inviable as a business and noone can do it
due to the high overheads v the little income it now has. Hence customers
have to do it themselves now and be pretty clued up. Having it fully out
there, is better than having a new solution brought out. It actually
protects the Nokia product more. :)
You all defeat yourselves.
http://www.unlocksmith.com/
Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!
The Mole
2003-09-11 16:02:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Blunt
I think you've missed the point. The issue here is not about receiving
upgrades to work with newly released models, its about it working with
a different phone of exactly the *same* model.
If you lose your currently registered phone and replace it with
another identical phone OPM will not work with the replacement unit if
more than a year has elapsed since you bought the software.
Maybe that comes down to discreetion between you and Oxygen. You would
need to register anyway to get continued upgrades of the software and of
which in turn support the product's development. It may be a little unfair
here, but then again if you lose your contract phone, they don't always give
you a new one do they? - and it is at a cheaper price! If it is expired it
is expired. It is your bad luck you lost the phone, Oxygen have no
obligation to renew your key because you are expired and out of contract to
use the product. However, your old phone key will work and it is your bad
luck you just don't have the phone registered with Oxygen.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 07:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Hello, The Mole!
You wrote on Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:01:44 +0000 (UTC):

TM> Providing the registration lasts for the life of the registered
TM> phones I don't see a problem. You can change your handsets within
TM> the year, after that year you need to update the licence to use new
TM> phones with it or you are stuck with just the ones you have
TM> registered. :) The updater of the licence code expires. This is
TM> my understanding.

You're right.

TM> This surely supports the product where piracy is rife. Common sense
TM> to me, to develop software where you can be sure of an on going
TM> income in difficult times. Right Oxygen? :) In a years time
TM> newer phones may be out and this insures you pay for on going
TM> developement. If you don't upgrade your phones though, it won't
TM> affect you! :)

You're right again ;-) Actually it was a simple choice:
1. To pay once for "lifetime" upgrades and, as a result, make this
"lifetime" vague (usually very short).
2. To pay product price once and much smaller renewal price yearly. It
allows us to continue development of new features and new models support as
well as ensures our customers that Oxygen Software will not vanish some day
because there will be no money to buy newly released phone models and to pay
to our programmers.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 06:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
Post by Oxygen Software
Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration
isn't expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and
technical support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide
technical
DB> So my complaint is true and valid. After 1 year, I cannot change my
DB> handset, and your product becomes worthless. This is a SCAM! An
DB> excuse to con people out of their money.

Speaking about being lazy to read license terms before purchase. Not all
things in the world should appear exactly as you expect them to. It's
notable that during the year there were 24 updates released and every has
readme.txt with an upgrade policy displayed during installation. You didn't
read any of them.

DB> You know people are going to upgrade their handsets after about 18
DB> months, so either they pay up (for a product thats already paid for)
DB> or go without.

Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. After 1
year you can continue using the product with the last registered phone as
long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one more year
of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.


If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-12 07:36:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Speaking about being lazy to read license terms before purchase. Not all
things in the world should appear exactly as you expect them to. It's
notable that during the year there were 24 updates released and every has
readme.txt with an upgrade policy displayed during installation. You didn't
read any of them.
Thats pathetic. You're blaming me for your rip-off. As other posters have
responded,
your text only refers to updates & support, I want nether. I want a key,
which is an
automated process.

If I was lazy, I wouldn't have bothered sending you bug reports & system
dumps
when your software crashed my system. And we KNOW it was your software to
blame because you e-mailed me a fix.
Post by Oxygen Software
Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. After 1
year you can continue using the product with the last registered phone as
long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one more year
of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for you, the
license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.
I don't want updates OR support. I want a KEY! The sending out of keys is an
automated process and costs you nothing. Now how simple is that.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-12 08:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
Post by Oxygen Software
Speaking about being lazy to read license terms before purchase.
Not all things in the world should appear exactly as you expect them
to. It's notable that during the year there were 24 updates released
and every has readme.txt with an upgrade policy displayed during
installation. You didn't read any of them.
DB> Thats pathetic. You're blaming me for your rip-off. As other posters
DB> have responded, your text only refers to updates & support, I want
DB> nether. I want a key, which is an automated process.

Readme file contains information about updates and technical support. As
you know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has an information
about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get the updated
registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not previously
registered) phone, you send a special message with the "Register/Unregister
phones" dialog to our technical support service. Somebody from our technical
support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.

DB> If I was lazy, I wouldn't have bothered sending you bug reports &
DB> system dumps when your software crashed my system. And we KNOW it
DB> was your software to blame because you e-mailed me a fix.

Of course. Unfortunately I don't know software without bugs. But you maybe
missed "Bugs and Program Errors" section in Oxygen Phone Manager II license
agreement:
We do not promise that Oxygen Phone Manager will be free of bugs or program
errors. If you report a program error or bug to us, we will use our best
efforts to correct it. If we issue a maintenance release for Oxygen Phone
Manager II which includes a correction for an error you reported, we will
send you a copy of that maintenance release at no charge. We will only do
this for maintenance releases, not for new major releases or other new
versions of Oxygen Phone Manager.
Post by Oxygen Software
Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some
moments. You paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and
technical support.
Post by Oxygen Software
After 1 year you can continue using the product with the last registered
phone as long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to
get one more year of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more
simple for
Post by Oxygen Software
you, the license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular
yearly payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.
DB> I don't want updates OR support. I want a KEY! The sending out of
DB> keys is an automated process and costs you nothing. Now how simple
DB> is that.

Processing your change phone request, updating information in the database
and sending the new registration key to you requires our technical support
service assistance. Therefore we consider this operation as a technical
support.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
The Mole
2003-09-12 15:10:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dolphin Boy
Thats pathetic. You're blaming me for your rip-off. As other posters have
responded,
your text only refers to updates & support, I want nether. I want a key,
which is an
automated process.
1. Don't slag the author of constantly and you may reach an understanding
2. Your software is expired, you lost phone registered to software, new
phone is not included in agreement, pay £10 and get free updates and support
for a year, problem fixed or pay £100+ to go to lawyers and still end up
with nothing.
3. Don't slag the author of constantly and you may reach an understanding,
this is a customer relations issue not a rip off, nor is he obliged to help
you until you purchase a renewal of upgrades as per agreement. Had you not
slagged him off, voiced your opinion sensibly, maybe Oxygen seeing the
arguement, the misunderstanding would have let £10 go. You're being an
idiot, so why should he as you are costing him business. If I were Oxygen
I'd give you the damn key because you are a pratt and it affects business
more than the £10 you would lose dealing in threads with idiots like you.
Then I would say, if you want upgrades in the future great, if not goodbye.
That is what I would do anyway.
The Mole
2003-09-12 15:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Just to make that clear. That is adding in your new phone to your licence.
Not giving you a years updates, further technical support.
If you would want that - pay the £10.

And this would be for goodwill, not because he has to, obliged to or is a
rip off!
It isn't. Most would say fuck off then and not respond to you any more.
It's silly to create a hostility over £10. In the long term you may value
the relationship with the author.

Mole
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-12 15:19:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
1. Don't slag the author of constantly and you may reach an understanding
Mole, we have already reached an understanding. They have agreed bar me from
using
my software (MY software because I have already purchased it)
I, in turn agree to publicise this rip-off whenever possible
Post by The Mole
2. Your software is expired, you lost phone registered to software, new
phone is not included in agreement, pay £10 and get free updates and support
for a year, problem fixed or pay £100+ to go to lawyers and still end up
with nothing.
Why bother with lawyers? Oxygen forced me away from their products, now I
make
do with other products.
Post by The Mole
3. Don't slag the author of constantly and you may reach an
understanding,
Post by The Mole
this is a customer relations issue not a rip off, nor is he obliged to help
you until you purchase a renewal of upgrades as per agreement. Had you not
slagged him off, voiced your opinion sensibly, maybe Oxygen seeing the
arguement, the misunderstanding would have let £10 go.
Oxygen were given ample chance to do just that in private e-mails. These
approaches all failed
Post by The Mole
You're being an idiot,
I'll just ignore that...
Post by The Mole
so why should he as you are costing him business.
That is exactly my intention. They have annoyed the wrong aquatic mammal
this time.

If I were Oxygen
Post by The Mole
I'd give you the damn key because you are a pratt and it affects business
more than the £10 you would lose dealing in threads with idiots like you.
Then I would say, if you want upgrades in the future great, if not goodbye.
That is what I would do anyway.
Good for you.
The Mole
2003-09-12 15:25:57 UTC
Permalink
The end. :)
The Mole
2003-09-12 15:42:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by The Mole
Had you not
slagged him off, voiced your opinion sensibly, maybe Oxygen seeing the
arguement, the misunderstanding would have let £10 go.
Oxygen were given ample chance to do just that in private e-mails. These
approaches all failed
Unfortunately, that is what the licence dictates. If they want to be 100%
by that then that is that.
I'll give you an example of something...

I have MobiMB 1.2.3. There is 1.2.5 out.
I like to have the latest version of software, all the time.

If I want the latest 1.2.5 version I have to pay £x.xx (it's very small).
I could do, I quite support Mike's policy - it is very sensible. I bought
and use MobiMB with a 3510i only as I no longer unlock now all the time. I
don't need support for 7210i added or whatever it is, so I have stuck with
1.2.3. For now, likelyhood is I will do a deal with Mike if I buy their
Poly thingy. But I don't need it really...

If a time 1.2.8 is out and I have say a 3610i then, then I am happy to pay
the £x.xx fee to upgrade my sw to include the new phone additions. As I
accepted when I bought MobiMB in the first place. Until then 1.2.3
suffices and I can quite happily use 1.2.3 until then... If however, you
want the latest builds, you have to pay as that is what the licence
dictates. You are under no obligation.

Right or wrong, this is how it is. You cannot change it. Rule is made.
If Oxygen allowed your new key for your new version of the same phone it
would help them and you, but they don't have to and you cannot flame them
because that is the policy. It is called life, you read the rules wrong -
it is not Oxygen's fault.
After all your flaming, I would probably allow use of your new phone, but no
more until you pay the £10 (if was me).
Not because I agree with you, but for good will. You have behaved stupidly
and I don't think Oxygen deserve damage to the company because you insist on
your way. It would be sensible for Oxygen to dismiss you as a pratt and
give you the one off key, but they don't have to and after your posts may
not want to.

If you could prove your last phone registered is the same as one now, maybe
they could honour that - but no way you can demand free licence upgrades for
your error - you lost a phone. Everyone would demand it.

Work now...so cannot argue any more, hopefully the pair of you will come to
an understanding.
Oxygen needs your help, support, custom, so I would let it go - but you are
not right in this instance Mr Dolphin.
If they say no, just pay the £10 if you want to use the sw or use an
alternative. It may be unfair, but that is the way life works.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-15 07:54:14 UTC
Permalink
A reasonable man adapts to fit unfair circumstances.
Progress depends on unreasonable men adapting unfair circumsiances.
(I'm sure that i've significantly misquoted someone here, but you get the
idea)
Steve Sweet
2003-09-16 17:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
A reasonable man adapts to fit unfair circumstances.
Progress depends on unreasonable men adapting unfair circumsiances.
(I'm sure that i've significantly misquoted someone here, but you get the
idea)
Well you didn't quote anything other than the above sentence so we can only
guess what you're referring to!. 8~)

--

Regards, Steve. S.

Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-17 12:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Sweet
Hi Dolphin Boy
Post by Dolphin Boy
A reasonable man adapts to fit unfair circumstances.
Progress depends on unreasonable men adapting unfair circumsiances.
(I'm sure that i've significantly misquoted someone here, but you get the
idea)
Well you didn't quote anything other than the above sentence so we can only
guess what you're referring to!. 8~)
--
Regards, Steve. S.
Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
I've had to go away & look it up now!

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man. "
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for
Revolutionists"
Chunky
2003-09-13 20:02:01 UTC
Permalink
"Oxygen Software" <***@oxygensoftware.com> wrote in message news:bjrqhi$20jl$***@gavrilo.mtu.ru...
<SNIP>
Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. After 1
year you can continue using the product with the last registered phone as
long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one more year
of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for you, the
license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment. I don't see any scam in this formula.
If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110, and my
wife has a 3310.
My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months ago.

How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?

Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I did
register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get another 3310,
that I have to pay more money?
(note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc, I
have)

Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years time,
but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra? (ie, have to pay
"for the development of 3410 code" even though the version of the software I
bought originally (if I do decide to buy it from you) supported it?

Cheers, and I look forward to your response,

Chris.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
The Mole
2003-09-14 00:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chunky
OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110, and my
wife has a 3310.
My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months ago.
How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?
Oxygen is a great program for DCT4 and DCT3 models. The phones you list
are all DCT3 and to be honest, although Oxygen is powerful, it is more an
all rounder software. LogoManager is incredibly cheap, very easy to use,
is unlimited phones, unlimited support and covers every DCT3 phone to the
extremes as well as useful addons like copying simcards, phone memory to
harddisk. Not saying that Oxygen is rubbish, but when it comes to the DCT3
due to Mike's then generous policy, it is a program you really should invest
in. Also 3410 is DCT3 technology (another reason why my favourite Nokia).
You can even make animated screensavers in LM. Not sure what Oxygen does
in the way of here, but from using LM for yonks and still to this day, you
couldn't ask for a friendlier piece of software! :)
Post by Chunky
Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I did
register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get another 3310,
that I have to pay more money?
Oxygen's registration is a different structure to Mikes. LM was the old
licence structure, but is still honoured. On newer products this is not as
generous, due to having to survive now, so both are as competitive in their
own ways. But for LM being DCT3 and Mike's unlimited access policy with LM
software only, it makes LM a superb buy for you.
Also 3310 and 3330 are not the most bugfree of firmwares, so hardly worth
spending lots when the firmware can let the product down. Ie on 3310,
reading off the simcard trunchicates the names - due to a bug in the phone.
But Graphics, ringtone wise etc, LM is brilliant for. Also ask Mike for
NKProfile, free with LM. If your phone (3210) supports it, it will give
you two free games. :) LM is now also only £13 or so with unlimited
phones and updates (though probably won't be any now as no DCT3 phones to
come out as old technology) and because it is the older licence policy.
1.3.0 is excellent. Get it, and software on my site... See later...
Post by Chunky
(note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc, I
have)
Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years time,
but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra? (ie, have to pay
"for the development of 3410 code" even though the version of the software I
bought originally (if I do decide to buy it from you) supported it?
3310 is VERY crap next to the 3410. On 3410 the software has majorly been
overhauled. The bonus 3315 feature are improved on and included by default
in the 3410, off on 3310. The 3410 has all the best bits of 3310 and 3330
with the operator names now correct. 3410 does not trunchicate the names
in LM. 3410 has extra screensavers to 3330 and you can still edit them in
LM. 3410 has two great clock screensavers, very useful when in your
pocket. 3410 has an autokeylock as standard. 3410s battery is a lighter
design. 3410 has a dedicated menu button. 3410 doesn't have the annoying
battery going flat quick on two bars bug. 3410 is ONLY £10 DIFFERENCE on
pay and go. Unlock it and works on all with your LM f/m cable.

I got one on the last bank holiday sale on T-Mobile for £39.99 with an old
phone traded in. Not now though. Unlocked it, works on what I want it to
now - just buy cheapest p&g and unlock it for your current SIM. Sorry
T-Mobile. New SIM is in my 3310 (sorry 3315 PPM B) LOL... 3410 is now on
O2. Boast etc...

See http://www.unlocksmith.com/ guide 1.

A lot of 3310 accessories (abeit covers) work on the 3410. Ie charger, car
charger, battery, usb charger, deck chair, dual charger probably, water
proof case, carry case etc... These are all very expensive to replace
according to phoneworld.tv. LOL

Don't wait a year though. You will be lucky if 3510i still exists - let
alone 3410.
If you want a cheap, reasonable phone, lightish - get one asap... :)
Highly recommended over a 3310 and the terrible 3330 (well the software is
terrible, not the phone itself).

Mole.
Chunky
2003-09-14 08:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110, and my
wife has a 3310.
My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months ago.
How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?
Oxygen is a great program for DCT4 and DCT3 models. The phones you list
are all DCT3 and to be honest, although Oxygen is powerful, it is more an
all rounder software. LogoManager is incredibly cheap, very easy to use,
is unlimited phones, unlimited support and covers every DCT3 phone to the
extremes as well as useful addons like copying simcards, phone memory to
harddisk. Not saying that Oxygen is rubbish, but when it comes to the DCT3
due to Mike's then generous policy, it is a program you really should invest
in. Also 3410 is DCT3 technology (another reason why my favourite Nokia).
You can even make animated screensavers in LM. Not sure what Oxygen does
in the way of here, but from using LM for yonks and still to this day, you
couldn't ask for a friendlier piece of software! :)
Post by Chunky
Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I did
register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get another 3310,
that I have to pay more money?
Oxygen's registration is a different structure to Mikes. LM was the old
licence structure, but is still honoured. On newer products this is not as
generous, due to having to survive now, so both are as competitive in their
own ways. But for LM being DCT3 and Mike's unlimited access policy with LM
software only, it makes LM a superb buy for you.
Also 3310 and 3330 are not the most bugfree of firmwares, so hardly worth
spending lots when the firmware can let the product down. Ie on 3310,
reading off the simcard trunchicates the names - due to a bug in the phone.
But Graphics, ringtone wise etc, LM is brilliant for. Also ask Mike for
NKProfile, free with LM. If your phone (3210) supports it, it will give
you two free games. :) LM is now also only £13 or so with unlimited
phones and updates (though probably won't be any now as no DCT3 phones to
come out as old technology) and because it is the older licence policy.
1.3.0 is excellent. Get it, and software on my site... See later...
Post by Chunky
(note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc, I
have)
Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years
time,
Post by Chunky
but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra? (ie, have to
pay
Post by Chunky
"for the development of 3410 code" even though the version of the
software
Post by The Mole
I
Post by Chunky
bought originally (if I do decide to buy it from you) supported it?
3310 is VERY crap next to the 3410. On 3410 the software has majorly been
overhauled. The bonus 3315 feature are improved on and included by default
in the 3410, off on 3310. The 3410 has all the best bits of 3310 and 3330
with the operator names now correct. 3410 does not trunchicate the names
in LM. 3410 has extra screensavers to 3330 and you can still edit them in
LM. 3410 has two great clock screensavers, very useful when in your
pocket. 3410 has an autokeylock as standard. 3410s battery is a lighter
design. 3410 has a dedicated menu button. 3410 doesn't have the annoying
battery going flat quick on two bars bug. 3410 is ONLY £10 DIFFERENCE on
pay and go. Unlock it and works on all with your LM f/m cable.
I got one on the last bank holiday sale on T-Mobile for £39.99 with an old
phone traded in. Not now though. Unlocked it, works on what I want it to
now - just buy cheapest p&g and unlock it for your current SIM. Sorry
T-Mobile. New SIM is in my 3310 (sorry 3315 PPM B) LOL... 3410 is now on
O2. Boast etc...
See http://www.unlocksmith.com/ guide 1.
A lot of 3310 accessories (abeit covers) work on the 3410. Ie charger, car
charger, battery, usb charger, deck chair, dual charger probably, water
proof case, carry case etc... These are all very expensive to replace
according to phoneworld.tv. LOL
Don't wait a year though. You will be lucky if 3510i still exists - let
alone 3410.
If you want a cheap, reasonable phone, lightish - get one asap... :)
Highly recommended over a 3310 and the terrible 3330 (well the software is
terrible, not the phone itself).
Mole.
Yes, I understand this, but have a real affection with 3310's ;-)

So, Mr Oxygen out there, can you explain how much it's going to cost me?

Chris


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
Chunky
2003-09-14 11:51:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:25:20 +0100, "Chunky"
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110,
and
Post by The Mole
my
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
wife has a 3310.
My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months ago.
How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?
Oxygen is a great program for DCT4 and DCT3 models. The phones you list
are all DCT3 and to be honest, although Oxygen is powerful, it is more an
all rounder software. LogoManager is incredibly cheap, very easy to use,
is unlimited phones, unlimited support and covers every DCT3 phone to the
extremes as well as useful addons like copying simcards, phone memory to
harddisk. Not saying that Oxygen is rubbish, but when it comes to the
DCT3
Post by The Mole
due to Mike's then generous policy, it is a program you really should
invest
Post by The Mole
in. Also 3410 is DCT3 technology (another reason why my favourite
Nokia).
Post by The Mole
You can even make animated screensavers in LM. Not sure what Oxygen does
in the way of here, but from using LM for yonks and still to this day, you
couldn't ask for a friendlier piece of software! :)
Post by Chunky
Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I did
register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get another
3310,
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
that I have to pay more money?
Oxygen's registration is a different structure to Mikes. LM was the old
licence structure, but is still honoured. On newer products this is
not
Post by The Mole
as
Post by The Mole
generous, due to having to survive now, so both are as competitive in
their
Post by The Mole
own ways. But for LM being DCT3 and Mike's unlimited access policy
with
Post by The Mole
LM
Post by The Mole
software only, it makes LM a superb buy for you.
Also 3310 and 3330 are not the most bugfree of firmwares, so hardly worth
spending lots when the firmware can let the product down. Ie on 3310,
reading off the simcard trunchicates the names - due to a bug in the
phone.
Post by The Mole
But Graphics, ringtone wise etc, LM is brilliant for. Also ask Mike for
NKProfile, free with LM. If your phone (3210) supports it, it will give
you two free games. :) LM is now also only £13 or so with unlimited
phones and updates (though probably won't be any now as no DCT3 phones to
come out as old technology) and because it is the older licence policy.
1.3.0 is excellent. Get it, and software on my site... See later...
Post by Chunky
(note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc, I
have)
Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years
time,
Post by Chunky
but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra? (ie, have to
pay
Post by Chunky
"for the development of 3410 code" even though the version of the
software
Post by The Mole
I
Post by Chunky
bought originally (if I do decide to buy it from you) supported it?
3310 is VERY crap next to the 3410. On 3410 the software has majorly
been
Post by The Mole
overhauled. The bonus 3315 feature are improved on and included by
default
Post by The Mole
in the 3410, off on 3310. The 3410 has all the best bits of 3310 and
3330
Post by The Mole
with the operator names now correct. 3410 does not trunchicate the names
in LM. 3410 has extra screensavers to 3330 and you can still edit
them
Post by The Mole
in
Post by The Mole
LM. 3410 has two great clock screensavers, very useful when in your
pocket. 3410 has an autokeylock as standard. 3410s battery is a
lighter
Post by The Mole
design. 3410 has a dedicated menu button. 3410 doesn't have the
annoying
Post by The Mole
battery going flat quick on two bars bug. 3410 is ONLY £10 DIFFERENCE on
pay and go. Unlock it and works on all with your LM f/m cable.
I got one on the last bank holiday sale on T-Mobile for £39.99 with an old
phone traded in. Not now though. Unlocked it, works on what I want
it
Post by The Mole
to
Post by The Mole
now - just buy cheapest p&g and unlock it for your current SIM. Sorry
T-Mobile. New SIM is in my 3310 (sorry 3315 PPM B) LOL... 3410 is
now
Post by The Mole
on
Post by The Mole
O2. Boast etc...
See http://www.unlocksmith.com/ guide 1.
A lot of 3310 accessories (abeit covers) work on the 3410. Ie
charger,
Post by The Mole
car
Post by The Mole
charger, battery, usb charger, deck chair, dual charger probably, water
proof case, carry case etc... These are all very expensive to replace
according to phoneworld.tv. LOL
Don't wait a year though. You will be lucky if 3510i still exists - let
alone 3410.
If you want a cheap, reasonable phone, lightish - get one asap... :)
Highly recommended over a 3310 and the terrible 3330 (well the software is
terrible, not the phone itself).
Mole.
Yes, I understand this, but have a real affection with 3310's ;-)
So, Mr Oxygen out there, can you explain how much it's going to cost me?
I'm not Mr. Oxygen, but in the absence of a reply from him I'll give
my calculation which is that it will cost you 89 Euros to manage all
four phones. That is for a license for 12 months, which allows use of
up to five phones.
After 12 months, you'll need to pay 39.80 Euros every year to extend
your support for four phones.
Perhaps Oxygen would like to correct that if its wrong.
89 euros? I would have to pay the business rate?..

And how would it work if my 3310 died in 13 months, and I bought a new 3310
to replace it?
(yes, they will be around in 12 months - don't forget, there's plenty of
3310s out there second hand)

Mr Oxygen, please let us know.
Thanks,

Chris.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
Chris Blunt
2003-09-15 10:18:38 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 12:51:46 +0100, "Chunky"
Post by The Mole
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:25:20 +0100, "Chunky"
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110,
and
Post by The Mole
my
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
wife has a 3310.
My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months
ago.
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?
Oxygen is a great program for DCT4 and DCT3 models. The phones you
list
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
are all DCT3 and to be honest, although Oxygen is powerful, it is more
an
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
all rounder software. LogoManager is incredibly cheap, very easy to
use,
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
is unlimited phones, unlimited support and covers every DCT3 phone to
the
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
extremes as well as useful addons like copying simcards, phone memory
to
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
harddisk. Not saying that Oxygen is rubbish, but when it comes to the
DCT3
Post by The Mole
due to Mike's then generous policy, it is a program you really should
invest
Post by The Mole
in. Also 3410 is DCT3 technology (another reason why my favourite
Nokia).
Post by The Mole
You can even make animated screensavers in LM. Not sure what Oxygen
does
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
in the way of here, but from using LM for yonks and still to this day,
you
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
couldn't ask for a friendlier piece of software! :)
Post by Chunky
Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I
did
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get another
3310,
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
that I have to pay more money?
Oxygen's registration is a different structure to Mikes. LM was the
old
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
licence structure, but is still honoured. On newer products this is
not
Post by The Mole
as
Post by The Mole
generous, due to having to survive now, so both are as competitive in
their
Post by The Mole
own ways. But for LM being DCT3 and Mike's unlimited access policy
with
Post by The Mole
LM
Post by The Mole
software only, it makes LM a superb buy for you.
Also 3310 and 3330 are not the most bugfree of firmwares, so hardly
worth
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
spending lots when the firmware can let the product down. Ie on 3310,
reading off the simcard trunchicates the names - due to a bug in the
phone.
Post by The Mole
But Graphics, ringtone wise etc, LM is brilliant for. Also ask Mike
for
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
NKProfile, free with LM. If your phone (3210) supports it, it will
give
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
you two free games. :) LM is now also only £13 or so with unlimited
phones and updates (though probably won't be any now as no DCT3 phones
to
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
come out as old technology) and because it is the older licence policy.
1.3.0 is excellent. Get it, and software on my site... See later...
Post by Chunky
(note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc,
I
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
Post by Chunky
have)
Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years
time,
Post by Chunky
but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra? (ie, have
to
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
pay
Post by Chunky
"for the development of 3410 code" even though the version of the
software
Post by The Mole
I
Post by Chunky
bought originally (if I do decide to buy it from you) supported it?
3310 is VERY crap next to the 3410. On 3410 the software has majorly
been
Post by The Mole
overhauled. The bonus 3315 feature are improved on and included by
default
Post by The Mole
in the 3410, off on 3310. The 3410 has all the best bits of 3310 and
3330
Post by The Mole
with the operator names now correct. 3410 does not trunchicate the
names
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
in LM. 3410 has extra screensavers to 3330 and you can still edit
them
Post by The Mole
in
Post by The Mole
LM. 3410 has two great clock screensavers, very useful when in your
pocket. 3410 has an autokeylock as standard. 3410s battery is a
lighter
Post by The Mole
design. 3410 has a dedicated menu button. 3410 doesn't have the
annoying
Post by The Mole
battery going flat quick on two bars bug. 3410 is ONLY £10 DIFFERENCE
on
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
pay and go. Unlock it and works on all with your LM f/m cable.
I got one on the last bank holiday sale on T-Mobile for £39.99 with an
old
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
phone traded in. Not now though. Unlocked it, works on what I want
it
Post by The Mole
to
Post by The Mole
now - just buy cheapest p&g and unlock it for your current SIM. Sorry
T-Mobile. New SIM is in my 3310 (sorry 3315 PPM B) LOL... 3410 is
now
Post by The Mole
on
Post by The Mole
O2. Boast etc...
See http://www.unlocksmith.com/ guide 1.
A lot of 3310 accessories (abeit covers) work on the 3410. Ie
charger,
Post by The Mole
car
Post by The Mole
charger, battery, usb charger, deck chair, dual charger probably, water
proof case, carry case etc... These are all very expensive to replace
according to phoneworld.tv. LOL
Don't wait a year though. You will be lucky if 3510i still exists -
let
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
alone 3410.
If you want a cheap, reasonable phone, lightish - get one asap... :)
Highly recommended over a 3310 and the terrible 3330 (well the software
is
Post by The Mole
Post by The Mole
terrible, not the phone itself).
Mole.
Yes, I understand this, but have a real affection with 3310's ;-)
So, Mr Oxygen out there, can you explain how much it's going to cost me?
I'm not Mr. Oxygen, but in the absence of a reply from him I'll give
my calculation which is that it will cost you 89 Euros to manage all
four phones. That is for a license for 12 months, which allows use of
up to five phones.
After 12 months, you'll need to pay 39.80 Euros every year to extend
your support for four phones.
Perhaps Oxygen would like to correct that if its wrong.
89 euros? I would have to pay the business rate?..
I think that would be the cheapest way.
Post by The Mole
And how would it work if my 3310 died in 13 months, and I bought a new 3310
to replace it?
You couldn't replace it unless you'd bought an extension for your
license for a further 12 months.
Post by The Mole
(yes, they will be around in 12 months - don't forget, there's plenty of
3310s out there second hand)
Mr Oxygen, please let us know.
Thanks,
Chris.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
Oxygen Software
2003-09-15 11:20:46 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Chris!
Post by Chunky
So, Mr Oxygen out there, can you explain how much it's going to cost me?
CB> I'm not Mr. Oxygen, but in the absence of a reply from him I'll give
CB> my calculation which is that it will cost you 89 Euros to manage all
CB> four phones. That is for a license for 12 months, which allows use
CB> of up to five phones.

CB> After 12 months, you'll need to pay 39.80 Euros every year to extend
CB> your support for four phones.

CB> Perhaps Oxygen would like to correct that if its wrong.

You're absolutely right. And thank you very much for your help (that
allows me to take a rest on weekends ;-)

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Oxygen Software
2003-09-15 11:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Chunky!
You wrote on Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:02:01 +0100:

C> OK, I've been thinking of trying out OPM for my phones.
C> Here's my predicament.. I've got a Nokia 3210, a 3310, and a 5110,
C> and my wife has a 3310.
C> My 3310 was bought about 2 years ago, and the wifes was 3-4 months
C> ago.

C> How much would it cost me to use OPM on these?

If you want to use Oxygen Phone Manager with all these phones, the
Business license (allowing you to use up to 5 phones simultaneously) suites
your requirements. It costs 89Euro. But honestly I'm not sure this money can
be justified for the Nokia models you currently have - all of them are
simple and don't require extended OPM functionality. You will certainly get
the possibility to work with your phones simultaneously, to easily copy or
move data from one to another, to backup and restore their contents... But
the latest features like Gallery, Java and MMS Manager will not work on your
models.
In other words, if you plan to change some of your phones to the latest
model(s), I would recommend you to buy Oxygen Phone Manager II, otherwise
I'm not sure.

C> Also, from the banter in this thread, is it correct to say that if I
C> did register now, and in 13 months time, my 3310 dies and I get
C> another 3310, that I have to pay more money?
C> (note, I would buy another 3310 because of all the accessxories, etc,
C> I have)

Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at no
charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document confirming
that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay renewal fee.

C> Alternately, if I decided to get a 3410 (which is out now) in a years
C> time, but is currently supported now, I would have to pay extra?
C> (ie, have to pay "for the development of 3410 code" even though the
C> version of the software I bought originally (if I do decide to buy it
C> from you) supported it?

C> Cheers, and I look forward to your response,

Business license allows you to use up to 5 phones simultaneously. You can
change them any time during the initial registration period (1 year). If you
currently have 4 phones, there will be no problem adding one more. If your
registration period is expired and you want to add another phone to your
license, you must pay renewal fee.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Steve Sweet
2003-09-16 17:22:42 UTC
Permalink
Hi "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at no
charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document confirming
that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay renewal fee.
Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would only
seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones on PAYG
and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof' of such. I'm
sure this scenario would apply to others.


--

Regards, Steve. S.

Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
Chunky
2003-09-16 21:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Sweet
Hi "Oxygen Software"
Post by Oxygen Software
Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at no
charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document confirming
that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay renewal fee.
Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would only
seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones on PAYG
and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof' of such. I'm
sure this scenario would apply to others.
--
Regards, Steve. S.
Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
Interestingly enough, all my phones are PAYG....
;-)
Chris.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
Adam Greatrix
2003-09-16 21:20:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Sweet
Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would only
seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones on PAYG
and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof' of such. I'm
sure this scenario would apply to others.
...And not everyone has a scanner, nor would everyone be entirely happy to
give out a scan of such a document which can often contain bank details etc.
Ok, so you can edit them out, but then if you're capable of that you could
easily fake such a document.

Adam
Oxygen Software
2003-09-17 07:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Adam!
Post by Steve Sweet
Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would
only seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones
on PAYG and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof'
of such. I'm sure this scenario would apply to others.
AG> ...And not everyone has a scanner, nor would everyone be entirely happy
AG> to give out a scan of such a document which can often contain bank
AG> details etc. Ok, so you can edit them out, but then if you're capable
AG> of that you could easily fake such a document.

Of course not everyone has a scanner, of course not everyone will be
happy to do this, of course it could be easy to fake this document... You
may name a lot of other reasons, but what we're speaking about? Are you
living in "absolute" society where all things are reasonable and logical,
where people have no difficulties and steel has no place?
Each solution is a compromise between convenience and security and I'm
sure you understand this well.

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Adam Greatrix
2003-09-17 08:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Of course not everyone has a scanner, of course not everyone will be
happy to do this, of course it could be easy to fake this document... You
may name a lot of other reasons, but what we're speaking about? Are you
living in "absolute" society where all things are reasonable and logical,
where people have no difficulties and steel has no place?
Each solution is a compromise between convenience and security and I'm
sure you understand this well.
Yeah, sorry - I just caught the end of a thread here. You're quite right,
each solution is usually a compromise between convenience and security.

From what I understood from the end of the thread you charge customers for
your product which in turn allows them to use the software for 1 year on 1
handset? Is this correct? If so this does seem a bit rare. The only other
software I know of that does this are some virus killers which are updated
on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and updates are an absolute must.

With phone software (and yours seems pretty good) I would have assumed that
most updates of the software would add support or features for new and
future phones. This means that most updates won't be relevant to most people
(other than bug fixes of course) as the software is pretty up to date and
will most likely do as much as it can for their current handset, at least
until they buy a new phone of course, but to use the software with a new
phone they'd have to buy it again? Or am I wrong (and no I haven't read your
T&C - I'm completely in the dark here)?

If what I've said is correct, or mostly correct, surely you could allow your
product to work by *default* for a group of phones - say 1 to 5, rather than
having this as a "family" license? A lot of people have more than one phone,
a lot of people change their phones more than once a year and a lot of
people buy a new phone and keep their old one or sell it on eBay. Most
software licenses cover ranges like this - MS (based on Office XP) allow you
to install their products on 2 computers at no extra charge, for example.

Or, for your "individual" license, if a person upgrades or changes their
phone they'd still probably have the same email address - rather than
sending copies of transfer or crime documents (which won't exist for the
situations mentioned above) couldn't a new registration code be emailed to
that email address which they registered from and this would still keep your
product secure? You could also limit it to say 5 changes per email address
per year (or whatever). Software is usually licensed to a "user" not a
phone.

This kind of licensing (1 user, 1 phone, 1 year) will put people off. Your
software seems very good and I would probably pay ~£25 for it if I needed
it - but not just for 1 handset - I have 3. Along with that, I do see your
software advertised against people's posts here in places where the free
Nokia PC Suite and/or the cheaper and non-expiring non-phone-limited
LogoManager would do just as well for that person's needs as specified in
their post.

Adam
G
2003-09-17 09:18:36 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Adam Greatrix
This kind of licensing (1 user, 1 phone, 1 year) will put people off. Your
software seems very good and I would probably pay ~£25 for it if I needed
it - but not just for 1 handset - I have 3. Along with that, I do see your
software advertised against people's posts here in places where the free
Nokia PC Suite and/or the cheaper and non-expiring non-phone-limited
LogoManager would do just as well for that person's needs as specified in
their post.
Adam
<snip>

As I understand it, you're dead right with your assessment of their software
licensing practices (1 user, 1 year, 1 handset). The software seems quite
good, I've tried the demo and liked it, but the license limitation means I
wouldn't even consider buying the software. I would like to use it on my
phone and my backup phone, but this doesn't seem possible. I don't mind not
getting support for *newer* phones (i.e. not having updates after I've
bought the software, or only having updates for a limited time), but I
expect the software to work on my own phone and its replacement if it gets
broken (assuming its replaced with an identical model) without having to
depend upon the goodwill of the software vendor (which will, of course
depend on their interpretation of the situation, and their mood at the
time). And what happens if the software vendor disappears? You lose your
phone, and you're left with a dead bit of code 'cause you can't get the IMEI
of your new phone registered!

Not a good practice. Methinks this smacks of windows WPA (is that where the
idea came from?), and I'm not keen on that but can't do without windows. I
can (and will) manage without Oxygen phone manager unless this changes, I'm
sure many other people will too.

Thanks to Dolphin Boy for pointing this out before I took the plunge.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-17 09:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Hello, G!
You wrote on Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:18:36 +0100:

G> <snip>
Post by Adam Greatrix
This kind of licensing (1 user, 1 phone, 1 year) will put people off.
Your software seems very good and I would probably pay ~£25 for it if
I needed it - but not just for 1 handset - I have 3. Along with that,
I do see your software advertised against people's posts here in
places where the free
Nokia PC Suite and/or the cheaper and non-expiring non-phone-limited
LogoManager would do just as well for that person's needs as
specified in their post.
Adam
G> <snip>

G> As I understand it, you're dead right with your assessment of their
G> software licensing practices (1 user, 1 year, 1 handset). The
G> software seems quite good, I've tried the demo and liked it, but the
G> license limitation means I wouldn't even consider buying the
G> software. I would like to use it on my phone and my backup phone, but
G> this doesn't seem possible. I don't mind not getting support for
G> *newer* phones (i.e. not having updates after I've bought the
G> software, or only having updates for a limited time), but I expect
G> the software to work on my own phone and its replacement if it gets
G> broken (assuming its replaced with an identical model) without having
G> to depend upon the goodwill of the software vendor (which will, of
G> course depend on their interpretation of the situation, and their
G> mood at the time). And what happens if the software vendor
G> disappears? You lose your phone, and you're left with a dead bit of
G> code 'cause you can't get the IMEI of your new phone registered!

G> Not a good practice. Methinks this smacks of windows WPA (is that
G> where the idea came from?), and I'm not keen on that but can't do
G> without windows. I can (and will) manage without Oxygen phone manager
G> unless this changes, I'm sure many other people will too.

Indeed, when buying a license, you're buying a year of free updates and
technical support (including free change of phones and new phones
registration). So you are able to have all the latest versions with new
useful features for your Nokia phones. Also you can change your phones at
absolutely no charge during this year. After a year pass, you are able to
continue using your actual license with your phones registered on it, or
renew the license for a small price and get another year of free updates and
technical support!
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. "One
phone" limitation doesn't mean you can use the program with only one phone.
It means that you can *write data to one phone at every point of time*. So
if you decide to change your phone during this year, it will be no problem
and you won't pay any additional money for this.
After 1 year you can continue using the product with the last registered
phone as long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one
more year of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
G
2003-09-18 07:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your terms
and conditions the license formula is closer to;

License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time - for
up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support (for 1 year)

where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is charged
for outside the initial 1 year time period.

If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no intention
of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well designed and
generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in this manner, and
would only really be interested if your software formula was more in the
style of;

License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time) +
updates&support (for 1 year)

I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
supported at the time I bought it.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-18 07:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by G
Post by Oxygen Software
If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your terms
and conditions the license formula is closer to;
License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time - for
up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support (for 1 year)
where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is charged
for outside the initial 1 year time period.
If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no intention
of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well designed and
generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in this manner, and
would only really be interested if your software formula was more in the
style of;
License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time) +
updates&support (for 1 year)
I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
supported at the time I bought it.
Post by Oxygen Software
DB EXACTLY my opinion mate! Well said.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-18 10:40:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello, G!
If it would be more simple for you, the license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular
yearly payment.
G> Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, as I understand it from your
G> terms and conditions the license formula is closer to;

G> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time
G> - for up to 1 year, locked to 1 phone thereafter) + updates&support
G> (for 1 year)

No. Just as I said:

License = Product + Updates&Support.

You receive Product forever and Updates&Support for 1 year.

G> where it is necessary to contact Oxygen software at any time that the
G> software is required to work with an alternate phone, and this is
G> charged for outside the initial 1 year time period.

G> If my understanding is correct, then this is the reason I have no
G> intention of buying the software, despite it appearing to be well
G> designed and generally pretty good. I think it's unfair to charge in
G> this manner, and would only really be interested if your software
G> formula was more in the style of;

G> License = Product (with use for several phones - 1 at any given time)
G> +
G> updates&support (for 1 year)

G> I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year,
G> but I would expect to still be able to use the software with any
G> phone that was supported at the time I bought it.

We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider them
they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Richard Colton
2003-09-18 12:47:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider them
they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.
At the risk of turning this into yet another OPM vs LM/MobiMB slanging
match, you're comparing apples and oranges. In your case the software is
locked to any registered phones/s and in MobiMB's case, it'll work with any
compatible phone. Licensing agreements are your province, and you're
entitled to do whatever you wish with yours, but personally I prefer the
MobiMB license model.
--
Post by Oxygen Software
Unlock Your Phones Potential <<<
http://www.thephonelocker.co.uk <<<
http://www.uselessinfo.org.uk <<<
G
2003-09-19 11:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Again, thanks for your feedback.
Post by Oxygen Software
License = Product + Updates&Support.
You receive Product forever and Updates&Support for 1 year.
Fair point, although I think you're missing the aforementioned point. The
product is *only* useable with 1 phone forever, not with replacements. This
is a severe limitation in the product, caused by the licensing approach
IMHO.
Post by Oxygen Software
We're not going to change the license conditions, because we consider them
they much more fair than, for example, paying upgrade fee for *each* minor
version of MobiMB. Just count how much (yearly) you will spend on OPM and
MobiMB and you'll understand that we're right.
Fair enough. Just as I'm not going to buy it while these are the licensing
conditions. I prefer the other licensing model as it gives me more freedom
to do what I want (I will upgrade when I feel the software no longer does
what I need it to do, and I am happy to pay to do this); I get the product I
bought to use with as many phones as I want for as long as I want without
*ever* needing to contact the software makers again to allow me to change
phones. i.e. it won't expire if I change my phone.

If your licensing scheme is so fair, why don't you make this approach a
little more transparent than simply hiding it in the terms and conditions
(I'm sure you're aware that few people actually read those things)? It would
be interesting to see how many people are put off by this when it's
willingly explained to them. I doubt you'd do that though as I think you
know it'd put people off.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-24 14:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Hello, G!
You wrote on Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:11:41 +0100:

G> If your licensing scheme is so fair, why don't you make this approach
G> a little more transparent than simply hiding it in the terms and
G> conditions (I'm sure you're aware that few people actually read those
G> things)? It would be interesting to see how many people are put off
G> by this when it's willingly explained to them. I doubt you'd do that
G> though as I think you know it'd put people off.

Yes, you're right. It was our oversight. Now we described this precisely
in the License agreement so it will be available in the next release of
Oxygen Phone Manager. And we'll put this information at our site soon.

I don't think it will put potential customers off, because all of them can
simply count that the yearly fee for Oxygen Phone Manager is *much less*
than the yearly fee for MobiMB. And this is on the understanding that Oxygen
Phone Manager has incommensurably more features.
Besides that most of people change their phones periodically, so they need
newest models support. In this situation the licensing inconvenience we're
speaking about simply doesn't mean.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
G
2003-09-25 12:46:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, G!
G> If your licensing scheme is so fair, why don't you make this approach
G> a little more transparent than simply hiding it in the terms and
G> conditions (I'm sure you're aware that few people actually read those
G> things)? It would be interesting to see how many people are put off
G> by this when it's willingly explained to them. I doubt you'd do that
G> though as I think you know it'd put people off.
Yes, you're right. It was our oversight. Now we described this precisely
in the License agreement so it will be available in the next release of
Oxygen Phone Manager. And we'll put this information at our site soon.
I don't think it will put potential customers off, because all of them can
simply count that the yearly fee for Oxygen Phone Manager is *much less*
than the yearly fee for MobiMB. And this is on the understanding that Oxygen
Phone Manager has incommensurably more features.
Besides that most of people change their phones periodically, so they need
newest models support. In this situation the licensing inconvenience we're
speaking about simply doesn't mean.
Fair enough. As long as it's made obvious so people are aware of it before
they buy then there'd be no cause for complaint. Compliments to Oxygen
Software for listening to peoples opinions.

The Mole
2003-09-19 00:30:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by G
I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
supported at the time I bought it.
But the licence of Oxygen dictates that you can use it with phones bought
within the valid licence agreement. After the agreement has expired you
need a new licence to register a new phone. Each phone has a serial,
therefore they are not the same phone, supported or otherwise. If you want
to register a phone to replace one lost, for free, outside the expiry this
software licence is not within your liking and you don't accept it and don't
use it. Simple.
But £10 to fix that problem (renew the licence as per agreement) and give
you all the latest updates for another year is well worth it when you
consider with MobiMB you pay for every upgrade, or pay for the upgrades you
want to use. Usually at £5 a time.
If they don't stick to these rules, people will be buying the latest phones
and saying they lost their old in order to get the latest free.
Are you all so tight and miserable you cannot afford to pay for development
of a decent product, especially when unlike Microsoft it isn't £100s a
time - but just £10?
They even generously offer if you provide proof of lost phone, will allow
you to add a same phone model in. I personally wouldn't bother - stick to
you pay £10, renew licence. It is your problem, not Oxygens - you bought
the software having read the licence, you also lost the phone. It is not
their fault so just pay the £10 and all will be well for a year with any
phones you want to register over the next 12 months, including the latest
updates, within the bounds of licence type.
That's it really.

If you don't like, buy Mike's MobiMB each time he tweaks it...
Excellent sw and perhaps if you didn't all pirate, would be made free
updates occasionally...
G
2003-09-19 11:16:50 UTC
Permalink
Respectfully, I think you missed my point. I like the software. I'd be happy
to buy it. I don't expect it to support phones developed *after* the point I
shelled out my hard-earned. Therefore it won't be future-proof and I accept
that. I'm happy to pay for the software or an upgrade if I then get a new
and more modern phone, I *don't* expect the developers to work for free.
However, I don't expect to pay for a new license if I lose a phone and get
it replaced with the same model, or a model that was around at the time I
bought the software and was stated to be supported by the software at the
time I paid for it, that's just tight.
Post by The Mole
Post by G
I've no problem with *not* receiving updates after the initial year, but I
would expect to still be able to use the software with any phone that was
supported at the time I bought it.
But the licence of Oxygen dictates that you can use it with phones bought
within the valid licence agreement. After the agreement has expired you
need a new licence to register a new phone. Each phone has a serial,
therefore they are not the same phone, supported or otherwise. If you want
to register a phone to replace one lost, for free, outside the expiry this
software licence is not within your liking and you don't accept it and don't
use it. Simple.
But £10 to fix that problem (renew the licence as per agreement) and give
you all the latest updates for another year is well worth it when you
consider with MobiMB you pay for every upgrade, or pay for the upgrades you
want to use. Usually at £5 a time.
If they don't stick to these rules, people will be buying the latest phones
and saying they lost their old in order to get the latest free.
Are you all so tight and miserable you cannot afford to pay for development
of a decent product, especially when unlike Microsoft it isn't £100s a
time - but just £10?
They even generously offer if you provide proof of lost phone, will allow
you to add a same phone model in. I personally wouldn't bother - stick to
you pay £10, renew licence. It is your problem, not Oxygens - you bought
the software having read the licence, you also lost the phone. It is not
their fault so just pay the £10 and all will be well for a year with any
phones you want to register over the next 12 months, including the latest
updates, within the bounds of licence type.
That's it really.
If you don't like, buy Mike's MobiMB each time he tweaks it...
Excellent sw and perhaps if you didn't all pirate, would be made free
updates occasionally...
The Mole
2003-09-19 14:07:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by G
Respectfully, I think you missed my point. I like the software. I'd be happy
to buy it. I don't expect it to support phones developed *after* the point I
shelled out my hard-earned. Therefore it won't be future-proof and I accept
that. I'm happy to pay for the software or an upgrade if I then get a new
and more modern phone, I *don't* expect the developers to work for free.
However, I don't expect to pay for a new license if I lose a phone and get
it replaced with the same model, or a model that was around at the time I
bought the software and was stated to be supported by the software at the
time I paid for it, that's just tight.
Yes, maybe you do have a point.
Its not exactly clear here...I was more following the thread, but the
licence I agree doesn't explain this clearly - if I were a first time buyer
you wouldn't be aware once the year has run out that you need to continue
technical support in order to add in a lost phone so I guess Oxygen should
amend the licence so that the terms when having lost a phone is clear, or at
least make it clearer so you can come to that logical conclusion easily - ie
it is obvious, without saying it.

Here's my idea, perhaps the software could be revised to only recognise
certain phones, by nhm-5, nhm-6 read etc, then once expired, you can
register any three phones of those phones implimented as much as you like,
within the licence type - ie 1 phone, three phones, five phones etc but the
last build of the software you had at time of expiry, would not let you
register any new phones that have not yet been implimented. The software
would not recognise them. Then once the expiry occurs you could register
only the phones implimented in the current build, change your licence key,
but not get updates which have support for the latest handsets, until you
upgrade...

Maybe when you buy the software you get all updates of (build 1) etc which
say has say NHM5 and NHM6 but when say NHM2 comes out, the software build
changes to (build 2) and these you don't get these free. You need pay
another £10 to continue free updates, but the (build 1 series) you can use
happily forever? Something like that?

So you may for example have 2.0 (Build 1) all DCT3 and 2.0 (Build 2) may
have 8310 and 3510, 2.0 (Build 3) may have 3510i etc. You can get all the
Build 1 free, then you pay £10, all the Build 2 free etc. Ie 2.1 (Build
1), 2.2 (Build 1), pay £10 and 2.2 (Build 2) etc However Oxygen design it.

That way, you lot get infinite phones of same type on current last build you
have and Oxygen make a lot more money than just £10 as now you have to pay
every time a new phone is implimented. Which long term is more expensive,
but that is what the customer wants, if customer wants that, give them it.
Oxygen has tried to be generous with the licence, whilst tackling piracy -
if you have a better way, let us all know!

Mole
The Mole
2003-09-19 14:16:39 UTC
Permalink
So whereas before you got your phones registered and could use indefinitely,
pay £10 to add new ones (including lost) now you pay every time a new phone
is implimented - if you choose to. However, providing you didn't lose your
phone you didn't have to pay anything extra after expiry, you just cannot
update builds or phones. It seems you lot won't stop till they impliment a
system where you can add in any phone of those currently, but when a new one
is out you have to pay for an upgrade.
So rather than getting the latest updates free, you just need to yearly top
up with a £10 you just pay £10 whenever you want to add a new phone not yet
supported by the current sw build and that way get any tweaks done etc.
This is very illogical, but if I was Oxygen I would have lost my temper by
now and done that - given you exactly what you ask for.
Mole.
The Mole
2003-09-19 14:22:13 UTC
Permalink
I wouldn't care, you have paid, your licence works indefinitely - if you
want an updated phone you pay again.
This would be a disadvantage to you, not me.
I would still build a customer base up. Only I obviously wouldn't be
posting my reasoning...
And because you are all stupid, you'd all be happy having got what you
wanted. Unable to realise you are worse off.

I think Oxygen will follow me, even if you don't...
I think the current system is fair and cheap against piracy
If you want to pay more in order to get what you want exactly, I don't see a
problem with that. But customisation costs because you need to make sure
your code is not stolen. I wish you lot could grasp this simplicity.
G
2003-09-20 10:56:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Mole
I wouldn't care, you have paid, your licence works indefinitely - if you
want an updated phone you pay again.
This would be a disadvantage to you, not me.
I would still build a customer base up. Only I obviously wouldn't be
posting my reasoning...
And because you are all stupid, you'd all be happy having got what you
wanted. Unable to realise you are worse off.
I think Oxygen will follow me, even if you don't...
I think the current system is fair and cheap against piracy
If you want to pay more in order to get what you want exactly, I don't see a
problem with that. But customisation costs because you need to make sure
your code is not stolen. I wish you lot could grasp this simplicity.
No need to name-call.

My opinion is valid, and several others seem to agree with me, so I don't
see why you should define it as "stupid". I understand your viewpoint, I
just don't agree with you. I follow your idea, and in the first of the 3
replies you made, you made some sense. Pay once, get the software to work
for the phones that were available at the time you bought it, pay an upgrade
cost if you want the latest version with support for the latest phones. This
would be a cheaper option for me, as I don't necessarily want support for
the latest phones all the time, and would prefer it to work with a few
phones at once rather than being locked to one. It would also be a lot less
counter-intuitive.
The Mole
2003-09-19 00:40:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Greatrix
From what I understood from the end of the thread you charge customers for
your product which in turn allows them to use the software for 1 year on 1
handset? Is this correct? If so this does seem a bit rare. The only other
software I know of that does this are some virus killers which are updated
on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and updates are an absolute must.
If you don't lose your phones, all phones registered, will work indefinitely
with the versions of Oxygen until 1 year is up and then you need to renew
licence to add in new phone s/n, replace stolen one etc (ie new phone s/n)
or use the latest updates. Until expiry you can change phones as often as
you want.

Point is person loses phone and wants to add in new phone in for free.
Valid point is licence dictates differently, he should have read before
buying sw, if didn't like terms, didn't have to buy. £10 is a very
reasonable update fee compared to most programs I know of. Once paid,
updates are free again for a year and phones can be registered as much as
liked.

Answer:
The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business solution to
piracy to me.
Chris Blunt
2003-09-19 11:35:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:40:33 +0000 (UTC), "The Mole"
Post by The Mole
Post by Adam Greatrix
From what I understood from the end of the thread you charge customers for
your product which in turn allows them to use the software for 1 year on 1
handset? Is this correct? If so this does seem a bit rare. The only other
software I know of that does this are some virus killers which are updated
on a weekly or bi-weekly basis and updates are an absolute must.
If you don't lose your phones, all phones registered, will work indefinitely
with the versions of Oxygen until 1 year is up and then you need to renew
licence to add in new phone s/n, replace stolen one etc (ie new phone s/n)
or use the latest updates. Until expiry you can change phones as often as
you want.
Point is person loses phone and wants to add in new phone in for free.
Valid point is licence dictates differently, he should have read before
buying sw, if didn't like terms, didn't have to buy.
Exactly where in the license does it say you cannot use a replacement
phone? Can you point out the wording that you say he should be
reading? I don't see it there.
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-22 07:43:50 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by The Mole
The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business solution to
piracy to me.
1. I HAD software that worked.
2. I changed my phone
3. I no longer have software that works.
Answer.
Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their customers.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-22 17:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Mon, 22 Sep 2003 08:43:50 +0100:

DB> 1. I HAD software that worked.
DB> 2. I changed my phone
DB> 3. I no longer have software that works.
DB> Answer.
DB> Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their
DB> customers.

Indeed, when buying a license, you're buying a year of free updates and
technical support (including free change of phones and new phones
registration). So you are able to have all the latest versions with new
useful features for your Nokia phones. Also you can change your phones at
absolutely no charge during this year. After a year pass, you are able to
continue using your actual license with your phones registered on it, or
renew the license for a small price and get another year of free updates and
technical support!
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. "One
phone" limitation doesn't mean you can use the program with only one phone.
It means that you can write data to one phone at every point of time. So
if you decide to change your phone during this year, it will be no problem
and you won't pay any additional money for this.
After 1 year you can continue using the product with the last registered
phone as long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one
more year of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.
If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Alistair
2003-09-22 18:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> 1. I HAD software that worked.
DB> 2. I changed my phone
DB> 3. I no longer have software that works.
DB> Answer.
DB> Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their
DB> customers.
Indeed, when buying a license, you're buying a year of free updates and
technical support (including free change of phones and new phones
registration). So you are able to have all the latest versions with new
useful features for your Nokia phones. Also you can change your phones at
absolutely no charge during this year. After a year pass, you are able to
continue using your actual license with your phones registered on it, or
renew the license for a small price and get another year of free updates and
technical support!
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. "One
phone" limitation doesn't mean you can use the program with only one phone.
It means that you can write data to one phone at every point of time. So
if you decide to change your phone during this year, it will be no problem
and you won't pay any additional money for this.
After 1 year you can continue using the product with the last registered
phone as long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one
more year of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for
you, the
license cost formula is
License = Product + Updates&Support
Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.
If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.
With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Dont you have any other reply??.....you are getting very boring now....

I'm afraid I agree with Dolphin......

he is NOT asking for your time and effort in developing new software
he is NOT asking for the latest version of the software with all new
features
he is NOT asking for an update

he IS asking why a piece of software he bought from you effectively expires
after a year.....

I see this is a scam too

when I change my pc I dont have to buy a new version of windows, the one I
bought previously can be installed without any additional payments.

When I buy a new stereo system I don't have to buy all my music CDs all over
again

I hope lots of people read through this thread and realise what a rip off
you are...
Frode
2003-09-22 18:48:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alistair
when I change my pc I dont have to buy a new version of windows, the one
I bought previously can be installed without any additional payments.
When I buy a new stereo system I don't have to buy all my music CDs all
over again
I hope lots of people read through this thread and realise what a rip off
you are...
It ain't really a ripoff when the supposed "ripoffer" goes to great lengths
to explain how the system works. I do agree it's not ideal nor very clever
though. Assuming I've understood Oxygen's intent. As I understand it the
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work or
whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing you to
contact Oxygen if you get a new phone. A much better solution would be to
introduce a timer that forces you to unregister your old phone in the
program, then wait for x hours before being allowed to reactivate the
program again with a new phone.

As long as you keep using phones the latest version of O2 you got within
the support period can handle, you'd never have to talk to Oxygen again.
The issue of someone just adjusting the clock forward would have to be
handled somehow of course.


- --
Frode
Alistair
2003-09-22 19:01:47 UTC
Permalink
"Frode" <***@mascot.REMOVETOREPLY.dyndns.org> wrote in message news:3f6f4496$***@news.broadpark.no...
As I understand it the
Post by Frode
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work or
whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing you to
contact Oxygen if you get a new phone.
how many people do you know with 10s of phones???

most people only have 1 (2 at the most)

you could say that this is a clever marketing ploy..forcing people to buy a
new license everytime they change their phone (as Oxygen can guaranteee that
nobody is going to keep the same phone for ever)

I see it as a rip off
Frode
2003-09-23 13:48:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alistair
Post by Frode
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work
or whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing
you to contact Oxygen if you get a new phone.
how many people do you know with 10s of phones???
most people only have 1 (2 at the most)
Try reading my message again. Especially the first sentence quoted above.
You obviously misunderstood it.


- --
Frode
Chris Blunt
2003-09-22 20:19:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:48:12 +0200, "Frode"
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Alistair
when I change my pc I dont have to buy a new version of windows, the one
I bought previously can be installed without any additional payments.
When I buy a new stereo system I don't have to buy all my music CDs all
over again
I hope lots of people read through this thread and realise what a rip off
you are...
It ain't really a ripoff when the supposed "ripoffer" goes to great lengths
to explain how the system works. I do agree it's not ideal nor very clever
though. Assuming I've understood Oxygen's intent. As I understand it the
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work or
whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing you to
contact Oxygen if you get a new phone. A much better solution would be to
introduce a timer that forces you to unregister your old phone in the
program, then wait for x hours before being allowed to reactivate the
program again with a new phone.
As long as you keep using phones the latest version of O2 you got within
the support period can handle, you'd never have to talk to Oxygen again.
The issue of someone just adjusting the clock forward would have to be
handled somehow of course.
If the issue behind all this really is piracy, then it would be fairer
to lock the software to one particular PC rather than lock it to
certain individual phones. Microsoft seem able to do this with Windows
XP Home, so perhaps Oxygen Software could use a similar concept.

Hundreds of other software developers are able to do business without
going to such extreme measures. As things stand now, Oxygen Software
are just generating bad publicity for themselves and alienating their
customers.

Chris
Chunky
2003-09-22 21:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Blunt
Hundreds of other software developers are able to do business without
As things stand now, Oxygen Software are just generating bad
publicity for themselves and alienating their customers.
Chris
Plus losing potential customers. (As I was about a week or so ago)
I've decided not to buy this software now, for all the reasons discussed in
these threads.
When I buy a program to poke around with all my phones, I don't expect to
have to faf about with it like this.

Chunks


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.514 / Virus Database: 312 - Release Date: 28/08/2003
Frode
2003-09-23 13:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris Blunt
If the issue behind all this really is piracy, then it would be fairer
to lock the software to one particular PC rather than lock it to
certain individual phones. Microsoft seem able to do this with Windows
XP Home, so perhaps Oxygen Software could use a similar concept.
It would be no more or less secure than what they're using today. I agree
that locking the software to one computer as opposed to one phone would be
much preferable yes.

It depends on their reasoning for doing as they have.

- --
Frode
Christopher Pollard
2003-09-23 03:05:47 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:48:12 +0200, "Frode"
Post by Frode
As I understand it the
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work or
whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing you to
contact Oxygen if you get a new phone.
Indeed, but why should they charge for this?

I run an internet cafe, and use some software to manage it. This is protected by
logging the hardware ID of this computer on a server. I recently replaced the
server. When I started the software, I was prompted to re-register the software,
which I did. If I try to run it on the old unit now, I get the same message.

This cost me nothing.

It's fine to lock the software to one phone but I think it's unreasonable to
charge customers for changing this more than a certain amount, say, once per
year.


Chris Pollard
--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-23 07:48:39 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Alistair
when I change my pc I dont have to buy a new version of windows, the one
I bought previously can be installed without any additional payments.
When I buy a new stereo system I don't have to buy all my music CDs all
over again
I hope lots of people read through this thread and realise what a rip off
you are...
It ain't really a ripoff when the supposed "ripoffer" goes to great lengths
to explain how the system works.
Post by Alistair
DB Trouble is, they don't explain squat. They talk about "support"
but changing phones is done by an automatic process and is not support.

I do agree it's not ideal nor very clever
though. Assuming I've understood Oxygen's intent. As I understand it the
reason is to make sure you don't use it to backup 10s of phones for work or
whatever, thus locking the program to the phone's IMEI and forcing you to
contact Oxygen if you get a new phone.
Post by Alistair
DB True, and I don't have a problem with that. Indeed, when I
changed my phone
within a year I was warned that I would never be allowed to use the old
phone
with oxygen again. (again, no problem there!)

A much better solution would be to
introduce a timer that forces you to unregister your old phone in the
program, then wait for x hours before being allowed to reactivate the
program again with a new phone.
Post by Alistair
My solution is NO upgrades after 1 year, but unlimited phone
changes.
Sooner or later, you will want to use a phone that is not supported by
your version & you will have to pay up again, but I have no problem with
this either.
Generating new code for new phones DOES cost, so you do pay.

But all I want is a code for the version I have, for a phone that IS
supported.
Come on, Oxygen, how hard is that?
As long as you keep using phones the latest version of O2 you got within
the support period can handle, you'd never have to talk to Oxygen again.
Post by Alistair
Agreed
The issue of someone just adjusting the clock forward would have to be
handled somehow of course.
Brian Watson
2003-09-22 22:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by The Mole
The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business solution to
piracy to me.
1. I HAD software that worked.
2. I changed my phone
3. I no longer have software that works.
Answer.
Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their customers.
I really don't get this.

You buy a Ford. You buy a hotted up camshaft for the Ford. You sell the
Ford. You buy a Range Rover. You expect the Ford hot cam to fit the Range
Rover?

Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You bin
the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You expect
the headset to fit?

But somehow software is supposed to be different to hardware, is it?

--
Brian
"Stuck down a hole, in the fog, in the middle of the night, with an owl."
ƧØÞ
2003-09-23 02:14:09 UTC
Permalink
"Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@doris.uk.clara.net...

<snip>
Post by Dolphin Boy
1. I HAD software that worked.
2. I changed my phone
3. I no longer have software that works.
I follow your frustration, but the oversimplification of the issue you
give above isn't actually correct. You do still have software that
works, just not with the new handset you now have.

Like 99% of the rest of us you just didn't read/appreciate the licence
terms. Pay the tenner upgrade and move on.
Christopher Pollard
2003-09-23 03:09:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Watson
Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You bin
the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You expect
the headset to fit?
No, but you expect to be able to use the same SIM.


The 3310 headset isn't meant to work with the 6310, Oxygen software is designed
to work with either.

Your example is a compatibility issue, that's very different.


Chris Pollard
--
CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
http://www.cginternet.net
tuned by RÄZO
2003-09-23 06:19:06 UTC
Permalink
"Christopher Pollard" <***@cginternet.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
| On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 23:54:32 +0100, "Brian Watson"
<***@spheroid.demon.co.uk>
| wrote:
|
| >
| >Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You
bin
| >the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You
expect
| >the headset to fit?
|
| No, but you expect to be able to use the same SIM.
|
|
| The 3310 headset isn't meant to work with the 6310, Oxygen software is
designed
| to work with either.
|
| Your example is a compatibility issue, that's very different.
its like comparing apples and oranges...sigh
|
| Chris Pollard
|
| --
| CG Internet café, Tagum City, Philippines
| http://www.cginternet.net
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-23 07:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Watson
Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>
Post by The Mole
The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business
solution
Post by Brian Watson
to
Post by Dolphin Boy
Post by The Mole
piracy to me.
1. I HAD software that worked.
2. I changed my phone
3. I no longer have software that works.
Answer.
Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their customers.
I really don't get this.
You buy a Ford. You buy a hotted up camshaft for the Ford. You sell the
Ford. You buy a Range Rover. You expect the Ford hot cam to fit the Range
Rover?
Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You bin
the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You expect
the headset to fit?
But somehow software is supposed to be different to hardware, is it?
Simple really, mate! The software IS compatible with my phone.
but, ad my licence is expired, Oxygen will not allow me the anti-piracy
code to allow me to use it!
(OPM2 uses a code, linked to your IMEI as an "anti piracy" feature
In reality, Oxygen KNOW you're going to change your phone, usually after
1 year, so they try to sting you for it!)
tuned by RÄZO
2003-09-23 08:08:11 UTC
Permalink
"Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@dyke.uk.clara.net...
|
| "Brian Watson" <***@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
| news:bknum1$3i7bb$***@ID-107392.news.uni-berlin.de...
| >
| > "Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:***@doris.uk.clara.net...
| > > <snip>
| > > > Answer:
| > > > The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business
| solution
| > to
| > > > piracy to me.
| > > >
| > > 1. I HAD software that worked.
| > > 2. I changed my phone
| > > 3. I no longer have software that works.
| > > Answer.
| > > Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their
customers.
| >
| > I really don't get this.
| >
| > You buy a Ford. You buy a hotted up camshaft for the Ford. You sell the
| > Ford. You buy a Range Rover. You expect the Ford hot cam to fit the
Range
| > Rover?
| >
| > Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You
| bin
| > the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You
| expect
| > the headset to fit?
| >
| > But somehow software is supposed to be different to hardware, is it?
|
| Simple really, mate! The software IS compatible with my phone.
| but, ad my licence is expired, Oxygen will not allow me the anti-piracy
| code to allow me to use it!
| (OPM2 uses a code, linked to your IMEI as an "anti piracy" feature
| In reality, Oxygen KNOW you're going to change your phone, usually after
| 1 year, so they try to sting you for it!)
|
| >
|
well....why not save urself the trouble of posting messages here n there and
use a code generator? there are quite a few out there :)
Dolphin Boy
2003-09-23 08:13:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by tuned by RÄZO
|
| >
| > > <snip>
| > > > The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business
| solution
| > to
| > > > piracy to me.
| > > >
| > > 1. I HAD software that worked.
| > > 2. I changed my phone
| > > 3. I no longer have software that works.
| > > Answer.
| > > Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their
customers.
| >
| > I really don't get this.
| >
| > You buy a Ford. You buy a hotted up camshaft for the Ford. You sell the
| > Ford. You buy a Range Rover. You expect the Ford hot cam to fit the
Range
| > Rover?
| >
| > Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it. You
| bin
| > the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310. You
| expect
| > the headset to fit?
| >
| > But somehow software is supposed to be different to hardware, is it?
|
| Simple really, mate! The software IS compatible with my phone.
| but, ad my licence is expired, Oxygen will not allow me the anti-piracy
| code to allow me to use it!
| (OPM2 uses a code, linked to your IMEI as an "anti piracy" feature
| In reality, Oxygen KNOW you're going to change your phone, usually after
| 1 year, so they try to sting you for it!)
|
| >
|
well....why not save urself the trouble of posting messages here n there and
use a code generator? there are quite a few out there :)
Glad you put a smiley in there, I was just about to get the flame thrower
out! ;-)
tuned by RÄZO
2003-09-23 08:25:46 UTC
Permalink
"Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@dyke.uk.clara.net...
|
| "tuned by RÄZO" <***@softhome.net> wrote in message
| news:bkov6s$44s1p$***@ID-157554.news.uni-berlin.de...
| > "Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > news:***@dyke.uk.clara.net...
| > |
| > | "Brian Watson" <***@spheroid.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
| > | news:bknum1$3i7bb$***@ID-107392.news.uni-berlin.de...
| > | >
| > | > "Dolphin Boy" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > | > news:***@doris.uk.clara.net...
| > | > > <snip>
| > | > > > Answer:
| > | > > > The UK are a very mean, tight bunch. Sounds logical business
| > | solution
| > | > to
| > | > > > piracy to me.
| > | > > >
| > | > > 1. I HAD software that worked.
| > | > > 2. I changed my phone
| > | > > 3. I no longer have software that works.
| > | > > Answer.
| > | > > Oxygen are a bunch of scammers who are trying to fleece their
| > customers.
| > | >
| > | > I really don't get this.
| > | >
| > | > You buy a Ford. You buy a hotted up camshaft for the Ford. You sell
| the
| > | > Ford. You buy a Range Rover. You expect the Ford hot cam to fit the
| > Range
| > | > Rover?
| > | >
| > | > Or (nearer to home), you buy a Nokia 3310. You buy a headset for it.
| You
| > | bin
| > | > the 3310 ('cos NO-ONE would buy one second-hand). You buy a 6310.
You
| > | expect
| > | > the headset to fit?
| > | >
| > | > But somehow software is supposed to be different to hardware, is it?
| > |
| > | Simple really, mate! The software IS compatible with my phone.
| > | but, ad my licence is expired, Oxygen will not allow me the
anti-piracy
| > | code to allow me to use it!
| > | (OPM2 uses a code, linked to your IMEI as an "anti piracy" feature
| > | In reality, Oxygen KNOW you're going to change your phone, usually
after
| > | 1 year, so they try to sting you for it!)
| > |
| > | >
| > |
| > well....why not save urself the trouble of posting messages here n there
| and
| > use a code generator? there are quite a few out there :)
|
| Glad you put a smiley in there, I was just about to get the flame thrower
| out! ;-)
|

hehehehehe....i believe its illegal to own one IRL though...hehe
Oxygen Software
2003-09-17 06:59:11 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Steve!
Post by Oxygen Software
Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at
no charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document
confirming that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay
renewal fee.
SS> Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would
SS> only seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones
SS> on PAYG and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof'
SS> of such. I'm sure this scenario would apply to others.

Several customers in situation sent us lost phone confirmation from
police. Don't you have any?

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
Steve Sweet
2003-09-17 20:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Ho Oxygen
Post by Oxygen Software
Post by Oxygen Software
Reading comments in this newsgroup we make a decision to allow phone
change in situations like this (I mean when the old phone is died) at
no charge. But you'll need to send us a scancopy of the document
confirming that the old phone is died. Otherwise you'll have to pay
renewal fee.
SS> Whilst i applaud this change in strategy and flexibility, this would
SS> only seem to work if you were in a contract situation. I buy my phones
SS> on PAYG and without insurance so if i lost mine there'd be no 'proof'
SS> of such. I'm sure this scenario would apply to others.
Several customers in situation sent us lost phone confirmation from
police. Don't you have any?
Not every loss of a phone is a police matter.

--

Regards, Steve. S.

Tea Please, Hot!, 3 Sugars, Coconut Cookies, & no friggin war stories!!.
Oxygen Software
2003-09-17 20:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Hello, Steve!
You wrote on Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:37:21 +0000 (UTC):

OS>> Several customers in situation sent us lost phone confirmation from
OS>> police. Don't you have any?

SS> Not every loss of a phone is a police matter.

Unfortunately if you haven't we can't help.

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk
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alt.cellular.nokia
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