Oxygen software. Licence renewals

[Dolphin Boy]

All I want to do is change the phone I use!
This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to renew my
licence.
In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!

Quote:-

Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_ one
phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be done in
several mouse clicks

Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story straight!

-------------------------

Hello!
Thank you for using Oxygen Phone Manager!
Unfortunately, your license expired. You can renew it here
www.opm-2.com/order/ Please, note, you should enter Qtu of phones you wish
to renew, it is one for default.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:22:21 +0100:

DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!

DB> Quote:-

Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks

DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!

Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical support
(including phone replacement) to you.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Dolphin Boy]

Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!
DB> Quote:-

Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks

DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!
Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical support
(including phone replacement) to you.
If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

So my complaint is true and valid. After 1 year, I cannot change my handset,
and your product becomes worthless. This is a SCAM! An excuse to con people
out of their money.
You know people are going to upgrade their handsets after about 18 months,
so either they pay up (for a product thats already paid for) or go without.
Well I'm going to make this con well known!

[John C. Rymer]

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> All I want to do is change the phone I use!
DB> This is the sixth response ( see below) telling me I need to pay to
DB> renew my licence.
DB> In another thread, you say I don't need to pay!
DB> Quote:-

Also you don't need to pay additional money if you want to _change_
one phone to another. This procedure is free of charge and can be
done in several mouse clicks

DB> Well? I think you need to have a conference & get your story
DB> straight!
Surely you don't need to pay additional money if your registration isn't
expired. As I said before you pay for one year of updates and technical
support. But if your license is expired, we can't provide technical

support

Post by Oxygen Software
(including phone replacement) to you.
If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.
Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

So my complaint is true and valid. After 1 year, I cannot change my handset,
and your product becomes worthless. This is a SCAM! An excuse to con people
out of their money.
You know people are going to upgrade their handsets after about 18 months,
so either they pay up (for a product thats already paid for) or go without.
Well I'm going to make this con well known!

Ah don't talk crap, you pay money for the program and one year of upgrades
and support and can use the product for as long as you want after that with
the same phone, you just want upgrades for life and to use it with as many
phones as you choose. I'm sure you would have found out what you were
getting if you had read the licence agreement or terms.

[The Mole]

Providing the registration lasts for the life of the registered phones I
don't see a problem. You can change your handsets within the year, after
that year you need to update the licence to use new phones with it or you
are stuck with just the ones you have registered. :) The updater of the
licence code expires. This is my understanding.

This surely supports the product where piracy is rife. Common sense to me,
to develop software where you can be sure of an on going income in difficult
times. Right Oxygen? :) In a years time newer phones may be out and
this insures you pay for on going developement. If you don't upgrade your
phones though, it won't affect you! :)

[G]

Post by The Mole
Providing the registration lasts for the life of the registered phones I
don't see a problem. You can change your handsets within the year, after
that year you need to update the licence to use new phones with it or you
are stuck with just the ones you have registered. :) The updater of the
licence code expires. This is my understanding.
This surely supports the product where piracy is rife. Common sense to me,
to develop software where you can be sure of an on going income in difficult
times. Right Oxygen? :) In a years time newer phones may be out and
this insures you pay for on going developement. If you don't upgrade your
phones though, it won't affect you! :)

Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a different
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you happen to
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.

Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of the
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

[Dolphin Boy]

<snip>

Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a different
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you happen to
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of the
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead the
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going to
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to pull
in more money :(

[Oxygen Software]

--
Hello!

Thank you for contacting us!

The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we want
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.

If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>

Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a

different

Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you

happen

Post by Dolphin Boy
to

Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the software
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is the
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of

the

Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead the
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going to
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to pull
in more money :(

[Dolphin Boy]

I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!

Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we want
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>

Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't get
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a

different

Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you

happen

Post by Dolphin Boy
to

Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the

software

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is

the

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated copies of

the

Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the key
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead

the

Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going

to

Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to

pull

Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(

[Oxygen Software]

--
Hello!

Thank you for contacting us!

We are warning people about it. It is written in the License agreement
(which you accepted before installing the software) and in our Readme. If
that wasn't acceptable for you, you shouldn't install and use the software,
but could had a refund. You have accepted it, you've agreed with it.

If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
***@opm-2.com
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!

Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we

want

Post by Dolphin Boy
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>

Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't

get

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a

different

Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you

happen

Post by Dolphin Boy
to

Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought the
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the

software

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this is

the

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms and
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated

copies

Post by Dolphin Boy
of

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
the

Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the

key

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually lead

the

Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are going

to

Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to

pull

Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(

[Chris Blunt]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 17:44:45 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License agreement
(which you accepted before installing the software) and in our Readme.

I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
different phone after the end of the year.

Post by Dolphin Boy
If
that wasn't acceptable for you, you shouldn't install and use the software,
but could had a refund. You have accepted it, you've agreed with it.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!

Post by Dolphin Boy
--
Hello!
Thank you for contacting us!
The renewal price is not equal with the new license. It is less. If we

want

Post by Dolphin Boy
to continue developing the software we cannot give it for free.
If you will have any further questions, do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards, Olga Pus'
Oxygen Phone Manager - all you want from your Nokia
http://www.opm-2.com/
http://www.oxygensoftware.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
<snip>

Post by G
Oh come on. Fine, don't get updates to the software, and fine, don't

get

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
*support* for newer phones, but not letting you *change* to use a

different

Post by G
phone after a year is a bit tight really. What's the policy if you

happen

Post by Dolphin Boy
to

Post by G
drop your phone down the toilet a year and a day after you bought

the

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
software but you get an identical (except for the IEMI) phone in
replacement? Surely its unreasonable to expect someone to buy the

software

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
again.
Pretty unfair to do this without making it really obvious that this

is

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
the

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
case (and that doesn't mean putting it in the middle of the terms

and

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by G
conditions). Surely this encourages people to look for pirated

copies

Post by Dolphin Boy
of

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
the

Post by G
software 'cause they're cheesed off with feeling fleeced.

My point exactly. My version of OPM2 (2011) supports my "new" phone
(a secondhand 8310, purchased from the first owner) . Oxygen claim the

key

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
business is for
software protection, a claim I happily support. (In fact, I usually

lead

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
the

Post by Dolphin Boy
flame attacks on
Lusers who ask for cracks) In reality, Oxygen KNOW their users are

going

Post by Dolphin Boy

Post by Dolphin Boy
to

Post by Dolphin Boy
change their
handsets - usually after the license expires, so its just an excuse to

pull

Post by Dolphin Boy
in more money :(

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Chris!

Post by Oxygen Software
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License
agreement (which you accepted before installing the software) and in
our Readme.

CB> I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
CB> that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
CB> mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
CB> different phone after the end of the year.

As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise notification about
"changing phones policy". We haven't included this topic because of the same
reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone support policy"
and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll clarify
this moment in the license agreement.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Dolphin Boy]

<snip>

Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise notification about
"changing phones policy". We haven't included this topic because of the same
reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone support policy"
and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll clarify
this moment in the license agreement.

GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license change,
so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:43:39 +0100:

DB> <snip>

Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise
notification about "changing phones policy". We haven't included this

topic because of

Post by Oxygen Software
the same reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone

support

Post by Oxygen Software
policy" and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll
clarify this moment in the license agreement.

DB> GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license
DB> change, so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?

First of all, we didn't "change" the license, we just concretized it. And
of course we would be happy to help you if you've contacted us with a
scancopy of document confirming the phone replacement *before* you started
this discussion and replied "Don't buy" and "This is a SCAM" to every our
post. But now... Sorry, your license is expired and the only we can offer to
you is to renew it for 1 year more.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Dolphin Boy]

Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Dolphin!
DB> <snip>

Post by Oxygen Software
Yes, the License agreement does not contain the precise
notification about "changing phones policy". We haven't included this

topic because of

Post by Oxygen Software
the same reason we haven't included "e-mail support policy", "phone

support

Post by Oxygen Software
policy" and other obvious things. But seeing such a rough reaction we'll
clarify this moment in the license agreement.

DB> GREAT! so your changing the Licence. I purchased BEFORE this license
DB> change, so it doen NOT apply to me. Please can I have my key now?
First of all, we didn't "change" the license, we just concretized it. And
of course we would be happy to help you if you've contacted us with a
scancopy of document confirming the phone replacement *before* you started
this discussion and replied "Don't buy" and "This is a SCAM" to every our
post. But now... Sorry, your license is expired and the only we can offer to
you is to renew it for 1 year more.

I DID contact you in private correspondance. You refused to allow me to use
the
software I have already paid for.
This IS a scam, using anti theft measures to obtain money from users that
have
already purchased software.
If you can only "offer" to con me out of more money, look forward to me
warning
all other potential purchasers about this rip-off
Have a nice day!

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:57:04 +0100:

DB> I DID contact you in private correspondance. You refused to allow me
DB> to use the software I have already paid for.

No, we didn't. You can use the software you've paid for as long as you
wish. We just refused to provide technical support to you, because your
registration period is expired. Purchasing Oxygen Phone Manager II you get
one year of free upgrades and
technical support. After this year, if you want to renew your registration
and get one more year of upgrades and technical support, you have to
purchase "Renew" license for a special price (from 5.95 to 12.95Euro per
phone).

DB> This IS a scam, using anti theft measures to obtain money from users
DB> that have already purchased software.

Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support. After 1
year you can continue using the product with the last registered phone as
long as you want. Renewal price of 12.95Euro allows you to get one more year
of upgrades and technical support. If it would be more simple for you, the
license cost formula is

License = Product + Updates&Support

Where "Product" is one-time payment; "Updates&Support" - regular yearly
payment.
I don't see any scam in this formula.

DB> If you can only "offer" to con me out of more money, look forward to
DB> me warning all other potential purchasers about this rip-off

We will be very grateful if you'll heap this mission onto your shoulders,
because analyzing your situation we were very surprised that not all
customers read license conditions (available at the order page and
readme.txt file displayed during *every* update installation!) before
purchase.

DB> Have a nice day!

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Jakey]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:48:44 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments. You
paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical support.

Updates?. Most of them were bug fixes, and when i informed you about a
bug you would not answer my e-mails until i put it on this newsgroup.

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Jakey!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:50:23 +0100:

J> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:48:44 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Oxygen Software
Let's take Individual license as an example and clarify some moments.
You paid 39Euro for a product + 1 year of updates and technical
support.

J> Updates?. Most of them were bug fixes, and when i informed you about a
J> bug you would not answer my e-mails until i put it on this newsgroup.

Oxygen Phone Manager II has built-in bug reporting system that sends us an
internal information about error and helps us to track the problem's
location and reason. We gather this information and try to fix the problem.
And we include all bugfixes' description into WhatsNew.txt file that's
available in every new release or update. But please understand that
this bug reporting system is *for our internal use only*. We don't answer
all bug reports and we claim nowhere that we do this.

If you will have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us.

With best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Chris Blunt]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:17:31 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Chris!

Post by Oxygen Software
We are warning people about it. It is written in the License
agreement (which you accepted before installing the software) and in
our Readme.

CB> I don't see it anywhere in the license agreement. The text only says
CB> that you get one year of upgrades and technical support. It doesn't
CB> mention anything about not being able to use the software with a
CB> different phone after the end of the year.
As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.

According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.

Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.

[Dolphin Boy]

Post by Chris Blunt
According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.
Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.

Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already have
our money
and therefore no longer care.
The best I can do is to warn potential buyers before they get caught in the
same trap.
Thanks for the support. (pun not intended :)

[BG]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:57:56 +0100, "Dolphin Boy"

Post by Dolphin Boy
Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already have
our money
and therefore no longer care.
The best I can do is to warn potential buyers before they get caught in the
same trap.
Thanks for the support. (pun not intended :)

I have to agree. I had a very long and unpleasant fight with them.
They refused to update the program, claiming " can't find any notes of
you beeing a customer of ours"

Their arguments were dirty and was called all kind of things in this
group.

So, I must agree:

STAY AWAY!!!


====================================== phone pages
http://osbymikro.tk
====================================== free sms
http://2sms.tk
====================================== mail address
***@osbymikro.tk.remove_th.is

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Dolphin!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:57:56 +0100:

DB> Chris, mate, I don't think we're going to win this one. They already
DB> have our money and therefore no longer care.

It is not true. We care about all our customers. Otherwise I would never
wrote a lot of messages here clarifying some moments of our upgrade policy
you haven't even read.

f you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Chris!
You wrote on Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:08:53 +0100:

CB> Can I make a suggestion to you?

Surely you can, Chris.

CB> Instead of spending time here arguing with your customers, why don't
CB> you listen to them. Its clear that many people find your policy
CB> onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course you need to make money,
CB> nobody would deny that, but other software producers seem to be able to
CB> find ways around software piracy without going to such extreme
CB> measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4 years ago. I paid less
CB> that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I have been entitled to use
CB> every new release of Logomanager since, and
CB> I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
CB> phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
CB> nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what
CB> we've already paid for just so that you can continue to develop
CB> software.

Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any. Pirated
version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right the day after
they released.
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more features
than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its evolution a long
time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great programmer!) understood it
and created three(!) new products to continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every time the
previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free yearly and be sure
you will receive all the new features in regular updates. We choose the
second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's more
fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.

By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650 phones
are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support *absolutely
free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1 year and were
forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2. It's
more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Chris Blunt]

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:23:27 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Oxygen Software
Hello, Chris!
CB> Can I make a suggestion to you?
Surely you can, Chris.
CB> Instead of spending time here arguing with your customers, why don't
CB> you listen to them. Its clear that many people find your policy
CB> onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course you need to make money,
CB> nobody would deny that, but other software producers seem to be able to
CB> find ways around software piracy without going to such extreme
CB> measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4 years ago. I paid less
CB> that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I have been entitled to use
CB> every new release of Logomanager since, and
CB> I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
CB> phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
CB> nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what
CB> we've already paid for just so that you can continue to develop
CB> software.
Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any. Pirated
version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right the day after
they released.

That may be true, but those guilty people who are pirating the
software are not your customers. Your customers have paid you for the
software, so why punish them for somebody else's crime by making them
pay for anti-piracy measures that benefit only you?

Post by Oxygen Software
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more features
than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its evolution a long
time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great programmer!) understood it
and created three(!) new products to continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every time the
previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free yearly and be sure
you will receive all the new features in regular updates. We choose the
second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's more
fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.

Oleg, in all your responses you keep talking about the benefits of
receiving upgraded software when that is not the real issue being
questioned here. What people dislike is being forced to pay again for
using the *same* version of OPM with another phone, even of the *same*
model.

Post by Oxygen Software
By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650 phones
are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support *absolutely
free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1 year and were
forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2. It's
more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.

Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new models
which are released during the next 12 months. You would be able to
identify the model of the phone being used just as you can now
identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case people
lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade them soon
after buying your software.

Then, at any time after the expiry of his license, the customer has
the option of buying an additional license from you which would enable
his software to be used with an extended range of phones, including
any currently available phone plus any new models released in the next
12 months. That additional license would be your payment for the
additional development work you had done to support new phones.

There would then be no need to obtain new codes every time you changed
your phone for a current model. Customers could still download the
latest version of OPM in order to fix any bugs, but will not have the
ability to use the software with the latest models unless they buy
another license.

[Oxygen Software]

Hello, Chris!

Post by Oxygen Software
Chris, could you please name any similar software that is not
pirated/cracked in several days from release? I don't know any.
Pirated version of Logomanager or MobiMB are usually available right
the day after they released.

CB> That may be true, but those guilty people who are pirating the
CB> software are not your customers. Your customers have paid you for
CB> the software, so why punish them for somebody else's crime by making
CB> them pay for anti-piracy measures that benefit only you?

Of course they are not our customers, and I didn't write this. We both
understand that the task of anti-piracy protection is always the selection
between more convenience and stronger protection. We're developing Oxygen
Phone Manager since March, 2000 and our protection scheme we use now seems
to be the happy medium between "comfortable but easy cracking" and
"strongest but very hard to use". We minimized customers' inconvenience when
registering phones by reducing of their actions to several mouse clicks. But
we understand that there are some small inconveniences in other aspect we
can't overcome without making the protection poor.

Post by Oxygen Software
About Logomanager and its update policy - I think you've found a bad
example. Yes you keep receiving new versions, but please compare the
dynamics of adding new features to Logomanager and OPM2. Oxygen Phone
Manager II is just less than 1.5 years old, but it has *much* more
features than LM. Logomanager is almost dead now, it stopped in its
evolution a long time ago. And Mike (btw, I think he is a great
programmer!) understood it and created three(!) new products to
continue earning his living.
So there is a simple choice between purchasing next product every
time the previous become antiquated and paying small fixed free
yearly and be sure you will receive all the new features in regular
updates. We choose the second way.
And we are not going to change our policy, because I consider it's
more fair than, for example, charging for every update of MobiMB.

CB> Oleg, in all your responses you keep talking about the benefits of
CB> receiving upgraded software when that is not the real issue being
CB> questioned here. What people dislike is being forced to pay again
CB> for using the *same* version of OPM with another phone, even of the
CB> *same* model.

It's hard to make the license policy that satisfies all. I agree that this
situation is not foreseen in our updates policy, but as I said before:
1. It's a very infrequent situation when somebody *purchases* the same model
that he used a year ago. Actually I know few models that were issued by
Nokia for more than 1 year, but the most of them were supported less than
year.
2. If the previous phone was dead and replaced by service center, you always
can contact us with a scancopy of the document confirming this replacement
and we'll try to help.
3. Personally I don't understand the "problem" of registration renewal at
all, because I can't imagine a person who bought a phone and said: "It's my
last phone model. I won't need any new models anymore for all the rest of my
life". But... It's only my opinion and maybe these people are living among
us, and maybe they consider the question of 12.95Euro renewal is adequate to
this huge polemics ;-)

Post by Oxygen Software
By the way our registered customers who bought Nokia 7650 or 3650
phones are very happy now that they can get Symbian phones support
*absolutely free*, despite of the fact that we worked on it almost 1
year and were forced to make a separate program for this - Oxygen
Phone Manager for
Symbian OS phones, and it has only about 10% common code with OPM2.
It's more fair than if we would charge an additional fee for it.

CB> Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
CB> Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
CB> allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new
CB> models which are released during the next 12 months. You would be
CB> able to identify the model of the phone being used just as you can
CB> now identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case
CB> people lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade
CB> them soon after buying your software.

This solution has (at least) two weak places:
1. We don't know ID's of "any new models which are released during the next
12 months".
2. Every time the new Nokia model is released we don't know its "internal"
name (and we can't identify it) until either we buy and test it or (e.g. if
the model is not for Europe market) our betatesters try it and send us all
the required data. Storing "allowed" model names will result in
impossibility to detect the new model by our betatesters.

But we'll think about this scheme.
Anyhow right now the problem of dead/lost phones replacement can be solved
by contacting us as I wrote before.

CB> Then, at any time after the expiry of his license, the customer has
CB> the option of buying an additional license from you which would
CB> enable his software to be used with an extended range of phones,
CB> including any currently available phone plus any new models released
CB> in the next 12 months. That additional license would be your payment
CB> for the additional development work you had done to support new
CB> phones.

This suggestion looks quite reasonable. We'll think about implementing it.

CB> There would then be no need to obtain new codes every time you
CB> changed your phone for a current model. Customers could still
CB> download the latest version of OPM in order to fix any bugs, but
CB> will not have the ability to use the software with the latest models
CB> unless they buy another license.

It's not a good idea, because the registration key that has no information
about the specified phone becomes applicable to every phone of allowed
models. So it would be very easy to make this registration key available for
all.

If you will have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact
us.

Best regards, Oleg Fyodorov.
Oxygen Software - tools for your Nokia.
Oxygen Phone Manager II - all you want from your Nokia.
***@oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.com
http://www.oxygensoftware.co.uk

[Chris Blunt]

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:31:28 +0400, "Oxygen Software"

Post by Oxygen Software
CB> Perhaps I can suggest a compromise solution that you could consider.
CB> Let's say that when you buy OPM, you get a registration code which
CB> allows you to use *any* currently released phone, plus any new
CB> models which are released during the next 12 months. You would be
CB> able to identify the model of the phone being used just as you can
CB> now identify the IMEI. That would allow more flexibility in case
CB> people lose their phones, change them for another model or upgrade
CB> them soon after buying your software.
1. We don't know ID's of "any new models which are released during the next
12 months".

You don't know it until the phone has been released, but what I am
suggesting is that this information be contained in the registration
code that you send customers to 'enable' the software to be used with
a particular range of phone models.

Post by Oxygen Software
2. Every time the new Nokia model is released we don't know its "internal"
name (and we can't identify it) until either we buy and test it or (e.g. if
the model is not for Europe market) our betatesters try it and send us all
the required data. Storing "allowed" model names will result in
impossibility to detect the new model by our betatesters.
But we'll think about this scheme.
Anyhow right now the problem of dead/lost phones replacement can be solved
by contacting us as I wrote before.

[The Mole]

Post by Chris Blunt

Post by Oxygen Software
As you probably know the registration key for Oxygen Phone Manager II has
an information about the phones you're currently using. If you want to get
the updated registration key that will allow you to work with a new (not
previously registered) phone, you send a special message with the
"Register/Unregister phones" dialog to our technical support service.
Somebody from our technical support service checks your data, includes your
new phone in your license and sends the new registration key back to you.
Therefore we assume this operation as a technical support.

According to your documentation, this is an automated process
performed by what you say is a 'robot'. The registration key is
normally returned within just a few minutes. I find it hard to
believe your claim here that it requires someone in your technical
support to manually check the data. Besides, this entire procedure is
for your benefit only to protect yourselves against piracy. Its of no
benefit to the customers, yet you expect us to pay for it.

Not a good arguement for the simple reason the License = Product +
Updates&Support
is well documented (always read small print). As far as I can tell the
automation is to yes, protect the software within the realms of your
licence. After the year has expired all they need do is tell the server to
deny the user and no more updated keys as per licencing conditions. If you
pay the U&S upgrade price then this is reinitialised. Like Norton
AntiVirus do, in order to support their software with latest definitions,
pay staff etc, otherwise = no product. Way of the world m8y. Get used to
it - because that's the way it is. This method is the way of updating the
program with new phones. So you are paying for the updates, not the server
dishing them out.

Post by Chris Blunt
Can I make a suggestion to you? Instead of spending time here arguing
with your customers, why don't you listen to them. Its clear that many
people find your policy onerous, so why not reconsider it? Of course
you need to make money, nobody would deny that, but other software
producers seem to be able to find ways around software piracy without
going to such extreme measures. I registered my copy of Logomanager 4
years ago. I paid less that half the price I paid you for OPM yet I
have been entitled to use every new release of Logomanager since, and
I can use it with any phone I want without having to re-register
phones. Mike Bradley is still in business, so don't give us this
nonsense about you having to charge us again every year for what we've
already paid for just so that you can continue to develop software.

You have to realise that times change. Mike Bradley has since learnt that
trying to be socialist and capitalist does not work. Bastards still rip
him off even when he charged just £20. It also meant all his hard work in
updates became free which is impossible to do as much as he may like to
because new phones are coming out constantly and he is making no money for
developing for them. These are new products, new coding. You may think
it should be free but that is stupid to do. Periodically you have to have
2.0, 3.0 etc with a new charge/upgrade structure otherwise you fold.

Mike's new products split from LM (I would guess) in order to have a new
price structure introduced. LM had the infinite updates policy, but he
couldn't see the future and of which has stuck to in regards to all DCT3.
DCT4 being different workings made sense to create individual tools, so you
buy what features you want, can use them as long as want, unless and upgrade
where you pay an upgrade charge. If you want cheap quality products, you
a) support the author so he has desire and b) don't pirate them. Otherwise
you have to pay for it and that is just life. Go and play some Monty
Python! :)

LM is likely to stop I would guess at 1.3.0 now as there is really not much
more can do in it (apart from clock set) and it really has no future in it
financially. Development time is now in the DCT4 stuff, not worth making
new LM which get pirated anyway.
Well that is what I would do anyway if I had programmed it.

Mole.
Just pay the 12.95 euros for the renew of live update and all will be well.
Very simple really - it equates to less than £10 for a years continued
support of the latest technology. :) The licence was there, you just
didn't read it. Don't want to add new phones after a year for £10? Stick
with what you have then. Simple. Mike and Oxygen are two different
people competing and each have a right to express what methods they choose
to sell their software, in the way they want to sell it.

[The Mole]

As long as the current licence works with the current version at time of
expiry with all current phones registered and this is all listed in the
sales agreement where is the problem? Say you get a 3610i released next
year. It won't be in the build 2.1.7 for example, so would need to be
added say in 2.1.8 and that costs money. With other shareware programs you
buy, you periodically have to re-buy the latest version - take PaintShopPro
for example. Even if you pay an upgrade fee. You are paying for the work
that allows the newer phone technology to be included. If you don't agree
to this licence method, don't use the software - but you are probably in the
minority.

Oxygen has a lot of work put in to it, and you need a constant income to
make it worthwhile to continue going. This method is a fair way of doing
that. You get a free year of upgrades, after that you pay a smaller fee
which continues upgrades and allows time to be spent adding new technology
to the program - don't get new technology and you don't need a new licence -
you get what you pay for. It is impossible to do for free - even if you'd
like to. Otherwise everyone would have the program and you'd be forever
updating it for free - like LM and see what people do with a £20 program -
they crack it. As people steal it, that only increases the problem. So
in a society like ours, you have to have a lever somewhere and this is a
sensible idea.

Unfortunately thieves don't have a knowledge of business - just how to
steal - why everyone told me to unlock DCT4 free and flamed me. You got
your wish - now none of you can charge for it! Instead everyone could have
helped each other and unlocking been stable at £20.00 with other phones done
also. But in this world someone always wants to get more than the other
and ruins what works by greed.

If and when the algorithum has is then changed noone has anything. Or - if
Nokia have any sense, they now won't change the algorithum - because having
solutions so available, makes it inviable as a business and noone can do it
due to the high overheads v the little income it now has. Hence customers
have to do it themselves now and be pretty clued up. Having it fully out
there, is better than having a new solution brought out. It actually
protects the Nokia product more. :)

You all defeat yourselves.
http://www.unlocksmith.com/

Post by Dolphin Boy
I have ALREADY PAID!
I will take every change to warn people of your "expired license" scam!

[The Mole]

If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Mole.

Sorry - thought it funny! :)

[Dolphin Boy]

Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)
Mole.
Sorry - thought it funny! :)

What's funny is that <every> time I see Oxygen in this NG, I'm gonna publish
my "review" (har-har!) of their license. I have owned a computer of some
sort
or other sinse 1980. Every piece of SW I own (Even Logomanager!) is paid
for.
OPM2 is the only application to use this scam.

[Richard Colton]

Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)

Well, he could, but personally I wouldn't bother. I put a basic review up
on my site which Oxygen had a few minor niggles with (they must have gone
looking, because I never notified them it was there in the first place).
So, as I'd written a review, I was offered a family licence so I could do a
proper review of the product. All well and good, but I found that my
original review was still waht I believed after evaluating Oxygen, so made
very few modifications to it.

Result - licence lasts approx 1 month! Not really a hardship as I don't,
and wouldn't regularly use it, but it does make you wonder.

[The Mole]

I have to say, although is a very nice program, I cannot get to grips with
it in the same way as LM and MobiMB.
It's probably because I don't see as many new phones now, but I would tend
to use LM for when upgrading DCT3
and MobiMB for DCT4 tinkering. I have a 3510i for fun (I got a good deal)
but never really got to grips with it - it may be sad, but I really like the
3410. It isn't a fiddly phone like the 8310, 7210 to use etc, it's not as
orangey as the 3510i - if made the colour of the phone nicer - it would have
helped. I just feel like 3510i screams at me, "My first Nokia!"
3410 doesn't do that - nice simple phone, with a few useful tools that are
bug fixed over the 3310/3330 range.
Best Nokia so far IMHO. :) I like the fact I can send ringtones and draw
screensavers (that move), then send via LM with this model. I find it very
hard to get to grips with Oxygen because of the fact it seems to load all
your settings each time and saving what you have done is more complicated
than LM. I've not used it much, I'd like to really, really praise this
program more than it sounds here, but I think what it is, is not used it
enough or worked with it enough to get the full benefits. I have it set up
so my 3510i is on COM 1 and I have 3410 on COM2 etc. I expect you can copy
nos from one to the other etc, just not really quite sure how. I must try
it out more - half the problem I think, got too used to LM write as you go.
Plus LM only updates everything if you need it to, not everytime you do
anything. I should read the help file more thoroughly! :)

Post by Richard Colton

Post by The Mole
If Dolphin was smart, rather than flaming, he could have written you a
fantastic review! :)

Well, he could, but personally I wouldn't bother. I put a basic review up
on my site which Oxygen had a few minor niggles with (they must have gone
looking, because I never notified them it was there in the first place).
So, as I'd written a review, I was offered a family licence so I could do a
proper review of the product. All well and good, but I found that my
original review was still waht I believed after evaluating Oxygen, so made
very few modifications to it.
Result - licence lasts approx 1 month! Not really a hardship as I don't,
and wouldn't regularly use it, but it does make you wonder.
--

Post by The Mole

Unlock Your Phones Potential <<<
http://www.thephonelocker.co.uk <<<
http://www.uselessinfo.org.uk <<<